Paint

[Mike Timoshyk]

Good day everyone,

Paint....so many threads have been dedicated to this one subject. For those of us fortunate enough to have access to suppliers it is a simple task to find what you want. For those "out in the sticks" it is not quite as easy.

For those of you coming to Acton in March, I have a request. Please bring along a sample of paint that was used during WW2 by the allies. I wish to get the color copied and the formula registered at a paint company. Which company you may ask, MacDonald and White of Windsor Ontario. The original suppliers of paint to Ford during WW2. I have already had them produce several shades and I am very pleased with the outcome. I would like all colors not just WW2. NATO colors, American, British, French and so on. If you bring an item for an example I will ensure you get the item back...don't bring in a whole truck hood....something small that I can easily be posted back if necessary. I am currently talking with MacDonald and White about them setting up an information or product booth at the militarymuster. I will let you know if they are receptive. In fact if they are you will be able to order paint to be picked up at the show. They charge with tax about $40 per gallon. An excellent price.

So there you have it. An opportunity to contribute to a paint database and an opportunity to have your paint needs met and picked up at the show. If in fact M&W do not wish to participate in the show...I will be able to handle the orders and bring the paint out myself. Either way it is a win-win for those who need paint.

Those with examples send me a PM and I will let you know if I already have a sample.

I will keep you all informed if MacDonald and White will be at the show.

cheers

Mike Timoshyk
Military Vehicle and Event Coordinator
Southern Ontario Military Muster 2010

www.militarymuster.org

[Jordan Baker]

I have a small flat CMP piece that is painted in SCC2

[BCBlitz]

Morning Mike

This is a great thing your doing for the hobby, I know WWII was a long time ago but it kinda surprises me they dont have any of there own samples left from that period if its the same Co. who did it back than, which in itself is amazing in this modern age.

I just hope the Khaki brown OD is dead flat as thats what will be going on my F15A one day, and now I have a CDN supplier, things cant get much better........ unless they do the zinc primer too !


cheers from mild 1C foggy Nelson BC, Canada

[Mike Timoshyk]

A couple of you have asked why the old codes from the company are not used. Just to keep you in the picture here is the following explanation(s).

M&W although still in production has changed hands from the previous owners due to that ever continueing saga of getting old. The gentlemen who were in business during the 40's no longer reside in this dimension. The company although very proud of its lineage did not, back in the 50s or 60s have any further use for material, data etc from the wartime production era. As with most companies they look forward and the past although important is not always a priority. Take Ford of Canada and their archives....no one is looking after that section of the company and they really do not give a damn. They are trying to survive in todays market, but I digress. With newer pigments, fixers and processes even with the old codes it may not be possible to exact the conditions and contents. Thus my journey and with the cooperation of the hobby at large I will endeavour to provide a source for that all important last stage of restoration....PAINT.

tschuss alles aus die heimat der Ford CMP

Mike Timoshyk

[derk derin]

Mike,
I am glad you brought up the subject of paint for CMP's as I will need to find a source and a proper color to paint my Ford CMP ambulance and all I have to go on as far as an original color is the seat frames.The covers protected the paint from fading and looks like a semi gloss green?On the inside storage compartment of the ambulance box seems to be the same color.Is this proper for a CMP to be painted for a 1944 production.If it is,the best thing for me to do is bring in the seat frame to the paint shop and have them scan and mix the paint from the seat sample or is there a company in Winnipeg I can go to that has the proper code recorded I can go to?Thanks,
Derk.

[Mike Timoshyk]

Hi Derek,

I am no expert on paint and can only give you my opinion. My request for matches outlines my desire to learn more. With regards to your seat frames, what a great example of what appears to be original paint. I have noticed in other shots that pics on the web don't always reflect the actual color under natural light. Same goes for taking pics under flouresent light. All the same you seen to have an nice example in which to get a color match. Best of luck on your journey....

cheers

Mike

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Mike,
I am glad you brought up the subject of paint for CMP's as I will need to find a source and a proper color to paint my Ford CMP ambulance and all I have to go on as far as an original color is the seat frames.The covers protected the paint from fading and looks like a semi gloss green?On the inside storage compartment of the ambulance box seems to be the same color.Is this proper for a CMP to be painted for a 1944 production.If it is,the best thing for me to do is bring in the seat frame to the paint shop and have them scan and mix the paint from the seat sample or is there a company in Winnipeg I can go to that has the proper code recorded I can go to?Thanks,
Derk.

Derk, the sample on your seat frame was originally matt but is semi-gloss because it has been polished by the seat cover all these years. Original CMP paint is matt-matt-matt. I know a lot of restorers use semi-gloss because it stands up better than matt. Another tip while painting your CMP is to leave lots of drips and runs. That too is origin...

As to the colour, Mike is right, it's hard to tell from a digital photo. For what it's worth, it appears to be 'khaki'. A 1944 CMP 'should' be 'Canadian' olive drab (Not, US O.D. Mike is matching the Canadian colour as we speak). I've had three or four 1944 Chevs that clearly were 'Khaki No.3' which by the book shouldn't be. Another thing to consider is that not all the part on a CMP were necessarily the same colour. Parts like seats, running boards, etc. were often assembled in the factory from a stockpile of the 'old colour' parts, or added later to the truck.

[Bob Carriere]

One US supplier......TM9RDNACE.COM..... has quite a display on their site showing the same truck under sunlight, cloudy day, even different angle and the truck shows different shades of the same paint....... and that is only according to my Oculary perception on my specific computer screen.....

..... and like Mike said if the truck was assembled from a stock of previously painted parts and or serviced in a repair center....plus some fading and wear...... some wise ass will walk up to your truck and will always disagree that you have the wrong shade.............good luck.....

Bob C.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Original CMP paint is matt-matt-matt.
.

The NOS cab 12 Ford doors I found years ago were in semi gloss .... the green was painted straight over bare metal..no primer ... these doors came from Camberwell .... as did NOS cab 11 windscreen frames wrapped in paper found at Drews yard .. same finish semi gloss green...

Mike

[Bob Carriere]

.... when we shipped Aussie parts by boat from Canada we knew most of it would be sunk before it got there so we took a chance and painted them with whatever we had available...... it's a good thing the pink and orange shipment did sink or you guys would be driving funny looking CMPs.

Boob

[derk derin]

Bruce,
I was wondering the same thing,if the seat cover rubbed the paint to give it a glossy look.When I took off the front fender,a square of original paint was still there and it seemed the same color but definitely a matt finish to it.I will now use the fender paint sample to match the paint,unless Mike can find in his search a proper paint code to use.It is going to be cold here for awhile and won't be painting anything for months yet so I have time to find a proper shade to use.I am glad it turned out to be matt paint as I like that look better on an army vehicle.My problem is it will have to be stored outside for the next few years until I can afford to build a garage to store my vehicles in and would want a durable paint that won't sun fade bad.If I tarp it,the wind will rub the paint in certain spots and either polish or remove the paint.Any suggestions on what brand of paint is the most durable to use?Oh and don't worry about runs in the paint,that's a guarantee when I paint!
Derk.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by derk derin

My problem is it will have to be stored outside for the next few years until I can afford to build a garage to store my vehicles in and would want a durable paint that won't sun fade bad.If I tarp it,the wind will rub the paint in certain spots and either polish or remove the paint.
Derk.

Have you considered a portable garage, one of those frame things covered with a tarp? I used one of those for a year or so until I built an extension to my garage (the day I moved my stuff into the garage was like heaven). They can be a pain in the snow but don't 'polish' the corners like a tarp and also allow some air flow.

[rob love]

The inside of my mk1 carrier spare barrel stowage box also had that semi gloss brown/green color on it. I thought that it might have been the il from the canvas or the polishing effect of the canvas on the Derk's seat frame, but the semi gloss seems to work right around the tubes of the seat frame.

A semi gloss paint is certainly a lot less porous than a flat color. Personally, when I am using automotive paint on my carrier, I simply use a lessor level of reducer (such as paint thinner) to flatten the colour from the gloss paint. It's a lot cheaper than reducer, and a heck of a lot cheaper than the flattening agents.

[derk derin]

Bruce,
I don't think a portable garage would stand up to the winds that happen here in the winter and even in the summer during a storm.I look at my neighbors portable garages and there is nothing left of them.The tops of most of my spruce trees have broken off due to high winds here from storms.That and the ambulance is at least 10 feet high and around 20 feet long which makes it too large a vehicle for the Canadian tire portable garage so would be looking at a larger package.If I have to tarp the vehicle,I guess blankets off the contact points where the tarp will rub the paint would prevent too much damage.How come we all end up with the garages we dream of having in life when we are close to retirement and not when we need them the most?

Rob,
I will need to have a paint that won't let the truck rust again like that aervoe paint does.If it is epoxy paint,will it flatten enough to give the right look but still give a good seal coat?
Derk.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Mike, I've managed to use a bit of that matt SCC2 Brown I got from you at the Acton Show. WOW!! It's the right colour, appearance, applies well, and the price...well...WOW!!

Yes, that is the paint for anyone doing a 'brown' CMP. I look forward to getting the khaki and 'stone' next.

[T Creighton]

I will need to have a paint that won't let the truck rust again like that aervoe paint does.If it is epoxy paint,will it flatten enough to give the right look but still give a good seal coat?
Derk.

Hello Derk,
Have a look for "Lechsys Isolack Pur Opaco" . We have in NZ so it should be available in your country. It is a two pack polyurethane enamel and very durable but being a matt finish the surface is fairly soft,
It will withstand brake fluid, oils & grease etc and is very easy to apply but needs the proper preparation and primer.
Can be tinted at the shop to any sample colour provided.
Not cheap.
Regards, Terry

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Mike, I've managed to use a bit of that matt SCC2 Brown I got from you at the Acton Show. WOW!! It's the right colour, appearance, applies well, and the price...well...WOW!!

Yes, that is the paint for anyone doing a 'brown' CMP. I look forward to getting the khaki and 'stone' next.

A post like that is useless without a photo.

[Mike Timoshyk]

Here is a pic of the brown paint Bruce was talking about....it is made by MacDonald and White in Windsor..

cheers

Mike

[Jordan Baker]

I can vouch for the accuracy of the SCC2 paint. This stuff is bang on and is dead flat.


I can't wait to get my hands on some gallons of it for my truck.

[Brian Gough]

Mike,

Is that the colour that Macdonald & White calls "Olive Drab S.G. Enamel BB 8194" ?

Brian

[Mike Timoshyk]

HI Brian,

I will have an answer for you tomorrow...the paint is at Geoffs garage...I will check out the can and see what number is on it.

cheers

mike

[Brian Gough]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for doing that. The number 99883 might also figure in there somewhere.

Cheers,

Brian

[Bob Carriere]

Looks like shit brown Mike...... and that is a compliment......

For my own learning..... when was that particular Turd Brown used..... month .. year.

BooBee
PS.... what does it smell like..?

[Jordan Baker]

Not sure of the official date, but for Carrier parts I haven't see any SCC2 on pre 1943 parts.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Jordan

somewhere in the many MLU precious postings there was mention of when it started and when it was dropped... a fairly short period early in the war...

Can any one shed light on this Brown matter....?

BooBee