Morris PU: BEF Dunkirk? Unit, registration?

[Rich Payne]

I had the pleasure of chatting with Ian in Dunkirk yesterday. There was a fascinating collection of 1940ish British vehicles.

His Ford really is superbly turned out and the V8 sounds most impressive amongst the straight engines.

[chalky]

Yes , the British vehicles in Dunkirk for the 70th looked fantastic , when all bunched up together in the side streets it could have been 1940. Such a pleasure to see ALL British vehicles and not a jeep or American paratrooper in sight.
Shame the real British Army didn't send a few representatives over though, I know they're busy but they could have spared a section.

[Ian McCallum]

Rich, thanks for your comments, really nice to catch up with fellow MLU members. Just had to post this picture to prove we got as close to the water as possible.

Chalky, most certainly it was fantastic and I cannot remember a convoy of purely 1940 period British vehicles all together in one place, let alone on convoy with 4 period outriders all under the control of the Frence Gendarmes who were great. In total we managed just over 700 miles, door to door, and were inland as far as Le Paradis where the Norfolk's were massacred plus took in the evening ceremony at the Menin Gate Ypres.

[chalky]

Whats the story with the WOC1 . They were built in Britain but why did Ford UK use the American front end .

[Ian McCallum]

Originally Posted by chalky

Whats the story with the WOC1 . They were built in Britain but why did Ford UK use the American front end .

Hi Chalky, You are quite correct re the front end and hopefully this will explain why. Late in 1939 Ford at Dagenham submitted a prototype to the War Office for evaluation, which due to the urgency was approved within two weeks! The design was based on a modified American commercial Model 01C chassis that was already being imported and bodied in the UK for our commercial needs. The 'cobbled' submission was designated WOC1 (WO for War Office, C for Commercial and 1 for first type). This incorporated the imported chassis and as far forward as the bulkhead was largely identical to the standard commercial model. It had the American lockhead hydraulic braking system, not to be seen on many lighter UK Ford models until post war and was fitted with the British 21 stud V8 engine. This was fitted with an open cab manufactured by Briggs Motor Bodies and the only stipulation was that the chassis had to accept a standard War Office pattern 8 cwt. well type body, (as also fitted to a Humber and Morris) variant. The first order was placed in October 1939 under contract V3615 for 1000 vehicles, followed by contract V3730 for a further 1000 vehicles on 17th. November. Due to America 'going neutral' during this period some components initally came through Ford Canada although quantity production of the chassis commenced at Dagenham on 20th. December 1939 with all vehicles being delivered by 24th. July 1940 and no further orders being placed. My vehicle retains its original number of Z4128683 which was the 489'th vehicle off the line within the first contract of 1000.

Ian

[Rich Payne]

I've never seen evidence of WOC1s captured in france being used by the Wehrmacht but a current ebay auction shows that they must have had at least two. The pictures are captioned on the reverse as 'Concarneau' (Brittany)

Presumably converted to FFW ?

[Alex van de Wetering]

Interesting pictures Ron, especially with that Wireless frame. There is another pic of a WOC in Wehrmacht service in Jochen Vollerts book "Britische LKW im Dienste der Whrmacht" as well. Will try to scan the picture in the next few days.

Alex

[rewdco]

Originally Posted by Rich Payne

I had the pleasure of chatting with Ian in Dunkirk yesterday. There was a fascinating collection of 1940ish British vehicles.

His Ford really is superbly turned out and the V8 sounds most impressive amongst the straight engines.

Another Dunkirk picture. The census number is quite close!



Jan

[Rich Payne]

That's a nice find, Jan. Frustratingly, we've still to find a WOC1 with a BEF formation sign. Interesting too that it has a 4-ton bridge classification.

I don't think that Ian is going to find a closer reference for his census number !

There is no GHQ or Corps bar on the AoS marking and '6' indicated an A/Tk Regt. RA in an infantry division. I can't see a horizontal red / blue colour division though.

I wonder if it is on the RE cobalt blue ground, '6' was used for an RE Field Company by at least some of the Motor Divisions (50th and their duplicate, 23rd Div.).

[Ian McCallum]

What a fantastic picture, and as you say the census is VERY close! Opens up my original thoughts that 'Ellie May' might have been one of the fortunate few vehicles that did do to France and make it back to the UK? No indication however of her military history other than the units markings when demobbed in 1946.

Ian

[Ian McCallum]

Originally Posted by rewdco

Another Dunkirk picture. The census number is quite close!



Jan

Jan,

Are you the owner of this photo as I would like a copy, without the fancy sunflower, or where did you see it.

Regards,

Ian

[rewdco]

Ian,

It was on eBay.de last week, but I see that it's sold now...
http://www.ebay.de/sch/zilpy/m.html?...id=p4340.l2562

Jan

[Rich Payne]

The location is not immediately obvious to me. The vehicle looks to be standing on sand but the tree growth behind doesn't immediately suggest the dunes from De Panne to Dunkerque. I wondered about the area around Calais.

We know from photos posted earlier that some WOC1s were there but not who they were with.

The only hope now with the photo is to watch if the buyer posts feedback and then contact him to ask if he'd share a decent copy to help off-set his costs. No harm in asking and some say yes.

[Keith Brooker]

Here are two original photos from my collection. 1st one only good for parts, 2nd photo, rare to see with cammo frame on top.
Keith

[Alex van de Wetering]

Excellent pictures guys! Why is it that there are so much German pictures turning up on Ebay nowadays?

2nd photo, rare to see with cammo frame on top.
Keith

Or a German radio antenna?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Keith Brooker

Here are two original photos from my collection. 1st one only good for parts, 2nd photo, rare to see with cammo frame on top.
Keith

Keith,

First pic looks like a Ford WOC that has been rear ended by an Austin K30, obviously to destroy them.

[Ian McCallum]

Originally Posted by Keith Brooker

Here are two original photos from my collection. 1st one only good for parts, 2nd photo, rare to see with cammo frame on top.
Keith

Keith,

Many thanks for sharing your pics of WOC1'S. I now have far more images of them abandoned, destroyed and in German hands than in British service! Perhaps that in itself is telling me something.

Keep looking guys.

Ian