Flathead Colour - Page 2

RichardT10829 · #31 27-09-10, 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaun

You should try Beltcher Engineering, these are the best and main suppliers of Ford V8 in the UK 21 and 24 stud. they usually have rebuilt engines in stock . They are based on the Norfolk/Suffolk boarder near Diss.
http://www.belcherengineering.com/index.php

IMHO stay clear of them mate......total rip off ! Both Kevin and I have had issues with his prices ie £56 +vat for one head gasket......get a full gasket set including heads posted back to the UK from the US for circa £80 you do the maths.....plus 90% of the components he listed that i required were incorrect for my engine nice bloke not so nice with his fee's

go direct to Mac vanpelt who Belcher gets his stock from........save yourself a massive wedge of cash matey

shaun · #32 27-09-10, 08:49

never had a problem with them, at one point they had genuine carrier exhaust silencers at £10 each. 21 stud head gaskets were £15 each. the list goes on. They have the kit, best to visit and get a deal.

Hanno Spoelstra · #33 27-09-10, 09:49

What about http://www.nordianservices.com/?

I have not done business with them directly, but the rebuilt 24-stud V8 in my F15A comes from them. It runs beautifully.

H.

eddy8men · #34 27-09-10, 10:00

hi alastair

if you don't want that 21 stud for whatever reason, any chance you could give me first shout on it as i need one for my fordson.

cheers

eddy

paul visser · #35 01-10-10, 09:32

I got my parts from Mac's Autoparts at macsautoparts.com from the USA. they have got all we need for good prices.

RichardT10829 · #36 01-10-10, 12:14

a load of my kit came from Macs too. good guy good costs too

andrew honychurch · #37 01-11-10, 18:46

I am sure that I will be told otherwise, but working on my Mercury 100HP T16 engine the only colour I can see on any of it is black. The water pumps appear to have been khaki at some stage but of course they may have been painted. I wish I could find another colour but so far nothing. Is it possible that the military spec engine for T16 could have been black ?

Aidan · #38 02-11-10, 02:13

I belive it was the standard ford Engine Green . Henry Ford would have Aproved

Aidan

andrew honychurch · #39 02-11-10, 16:25

I suspect this story will run and run. As I said the green I can find on mine are on the water pumps. Looking at the photo of the very original T16 owned by a friend of David Gordon, the sump looks to be black as per mine. Anyway, as an aside I ran into this colour on a French Army jeep engine. It looks very like the colour on the water pump pulleys David posted earlier. I can get this colour paint no problem so may go with this , otherwise I am thinking dark Grey or Black There is also a picture of my engine as is.

Hanno Spoelstra · #40 02-11-10, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew honychurch

I can get this colour paint no problem so may go with this , otherwise I am thinking dark Grey or Black There is also a picture of my engine as is.

Andrew,

If your engine is black, I would repaint it as such, also because that colour helps dissipate heat which is a bonus for a V8 running in the confines of a Carrier.

Hanno

andrew honychurch · #41 02-11-10, 18:01

you may well be right , I just was looking for an excuse to change the colour as its a bit dull but maybe it is correct for mine. Its frustrating not being able to discover. I did have a friend who had a T16 out of a crate many many years ago. I wonder if he has any old photos he could check out? Must be worth a call anyway.

A

Aidan · #42 02-11-10, 19:19

5,000 T16's were Built at the Ford Somerville plant in Massachusetts, USA. I live about 16 miles away from that ole factory(now a Shopping Mall). I know of 2 T16's that have been restored in my sticks. I belive Ford Flathead 100Hp Motors were painted the same Colour as a for truck motor, Black, Green, Gray, take your pick I suppose. Aidan

andrew honychurch · #43 02-11-10, 19:29

well there you go! Black Green and Grey seem to be the colours that mostly come up so I will have a think and chose what I think will look best. I rather like the Grey but there again, Hanno's point about heat dissipation with black is a good one. I know my father wants it black as that is what he recalls V8s being in the Universals that he made so maybe he gets his way! thx

RichardT10829 · #44 02-11-10, 22:37

although technically not correct i want to paint my lump in battleship ish grey, just love the colour

andrew honychurch · #45 04-11-10, 16:35

just when I thought i had it sorted...black......i just found this. Went to buy some T16 parts today and picked this up. Brand new and in dark grey/blue! so it seems blue, green and black are definitely the choices!

tankbarrell · #46 04-11-10, 17:51

That was the colour I suggested at the start of the thread.... I don't think anybody believed me!

Just glad I wasn't imagining it!

andrew honychurch · #47 04-11-10, 20:09

er humm.....it could be a primer? anyway, I quite like it and would like to match it. Anyone in the Uk where I can get colours suitable for brushing?

Alex Blair (RIP) · #48 04-11-10, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew honychurch

er humm.....it could be a primer? anyway, I quite like it and would like to match it. Anyone in the Uk where I can get colours suitable for brushing?

Nope AH..Not a primer but an original colour..I remember it well on the Old flat head ford engines..parts of which my mom use as teething devices for us..
Mr Barrel,know-er of all things military,greasy,rusty,green,sometimes blue,is right,again.

andrew honychurch · #49 05-11-10, 13:03

I see that the POR 300 range, a US paint, do a Ford Medium blue and a Ford Dark Blue. Its tricky to see from the screen what the colour is exactly but as long as its not the Ford Corporate Emblem blue, I dont think it is, then this could be the colour. Anyone had any experience of it?

Oh and by the way, My father said that every engine that he saw fitted to the Sentinel made Universals came from Dagenham and was mated to the gearbox. They were both black and all they did was put it on a jig and run them to set up or check the carburettor settings and then they were fitted. I appreciate that these were UK built non Mercury engines, but it may be of interest.

ajmac · #50 07-11-10, 08:53

All 85 BHP Ford V8s were painted 'Ford Dark Green'.
All 95/100BHP Mercury V8s were painted 'Ford Dark Blue'.

All wartime UCs and Loyds had 85BHP Ford Units.
All T16s received Mercury V8s.

You can get both from the US, try Joblot or duplicolor, they stock both colours...... but then comes the million dollar question.... what colour were the gearboxes painted, blue or green....ahhhhh

PS. The Loyd is getting a Ford Dark Green Flathead and box, however I'd like to know if it is supposed to be gloss, semi or matt?

Lynn Eades · #51 07-11-10, 10:20

I disagree that all war time U.C's were 85 H.P.
Gearbox's were grey weren't they?

andrew honychurch · #52 07-11-10, 10:23

well as I said. From the horses mouth so to speak, all the engines and boxes fitted to the Sentinel made UC's were black gearboxes and engines!

ajmac · #53 08-11-10, 20:20

We must remember that Flatheads were made at least three different Countries

UK, USA, Canada .... Australia too?

However Mercs were only built in the USA and went into the T16s, for some reason we wouldn't accept them, although we did test them. The wartime manual I have lists all Flathead types for UCs and Loyds and if you go through the cylinder liners list it says all versions can take the Dagenham liner. If any were the 95/100 BHP version they would have the larger bore to give the 3.8L capacity.
HOWEVER wartime manuals on UCs must be taken with a pinch of salt

andrew honychurch · #54 08-11-10, 20:37

maybe the extra uumph would have given the drive train track warping some problems? Ot perhaps they wer not seen as necessary?

RichardT10829 · #55 08-11-10, 21:03

Not all carrier engines were 85hp buddy. the earlier brit lumps were the lower 60hp units. It was the canadians i believe who saw common sense and put the bigger 24 stud 85hp lumps in

Andrew. the way i look at it is paint it in what ever you like best, after all it is one of those items that could be easily rectified by a pure'ist at a later date.

how about ford diamond white then get all the bolts exchanged for chrome plated ones...and a nice pollished blower on the top

David (Horsa) would be best to speak with, if going for acuracy bud then paint it that dark blue / black that mercury used.

ajmac · #56 08-11-10, 21:42

UC parts list states all V8s used in UCs and Loyds are 221ci (85 BHP) - November 1944. However the April 1944 Loyd Workshop Manual states in the Power Unit preamble that the USA engine is 90 BHP while the UK version is 85 BHP! On the face of it, it looks like Loyds were never manufactured with Canadian Flatheads.

Local Chap · #57 09-11-10, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmac

All 85 BHP Ford V8s were painted 'Ford Dark Green'.
All 95/100BHP Mercury V8s were painted 'Ford Dark Blue'.

We must remember that Flatheads were made at least three different Countries

UK, USA, Canada .... Australia too?

However Mercs were only built in the USA ...... If any were the 95/100 BHP version they would have the larger bore to give the 3.8L capacity.

Nonsense! ALL of the CMP truck engines are Canadian built "Merc" engines (C99A, aka 3 3/16" bore, aka 95hp), and most of the NOS painted parts for them are Ford Dark Green. There are limited instances of US built engines being supplied to top up production, but by far the bulk of Canadian CMP, MCP and Carrier production had engines made in Canada.

Don't be misled by the majority of online references for Flathead Engines, as most only refer to US production and often state that production ceased altogether between '42 and '45. Canadian made engines continued production throughout and remained Green in both 221 and 239 sizes.
US production used both Green, Blue or Black, while Dagenham used Green or Black.

ajmac · #58 09-11-10, 01:51

Like I said, wartime manuals and parts lists are not too reliable!

When did Dagenham flirt with Black during wartime? I've seen original 1946 and 1947 Dagenham flatheads with US electricals both were ford dark green. A 42/43 UC Dagenham flathead sump in unrestored condition was also ford dark green as well as a 1942 7V Flathead in original condition....

I wasn't really thinking about Canadian production as I have no details about any Canadian production specs other than they seem to follow Detroit. For instance the parts lists say the Detroit Conrods are the same part as Canadian but NOT Dagenham as we had a design freeze in 1938, thus didn't pick-up the 1938 24 stud upgrade.

Are we saying that Ford Canada produced 3.6L and 3.8L side by side just as they did in Detroit? If so, that's good as it backs up the wartime information that Ford didn't like continuing 3.6L production and only did so as the UK forced them to. Ford offered the Merc to replace the 85BHP Ford 3.6L but we said no.

The 1941 Loyd manual sates 85BHP and the manual is widely a cut and paste job from an earlier UC publication. I've got all the Loyd parts lists updates from November 1944 until 1950 which also fully covers the UC power unit too, none of the list updates mention engine changes, which suggests the 85BHP stayed with the British UC throughout wartime. What do the Canadian Produced UC parts lists say?

The Bedford Boys · #59 09-11-10, 06:19

So basicly you can fit any size engine, in an colour of the rainbow and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference?

Tehehehehehe....

ajmac · #60 09-11-10, 09:17

That's about the size of it!

Mine is going green along with the gearbox as I found original dark green paint hidden under the oil and grime on the Loyds.

Also of interest is the ford supplied parts which Loyd used, every part of the Loyd has a pea green primer and OD top coat, however the prop cover, torque tube and I THINK the axle all have a red oxide primer and OD topcoat. I'm not sure about the bogies yet as they haven't given me one spot of paint, far too much rust for that!

The Flathead from the Loyd is proving a bu#ger to strip down due to the range damage, however evidence suggests that it is wartime production. 24 stud, which gives us post 1939. Two bolt front cover, which gives us post 1942 and no cast numbers on the bell housing which means not post 46 production. 1942 - 1946.

Does anyone know how I can ID it as Canadian manufactured?