Richie's Mk1 Restoration - Page 5

Aidan · #**121** 15-12-10, 20:37

I heard that you can strap your gas tanks on a farm tractor wheel or outside on a stationary sement mixer,add sum round peebles in the gas tank as the wheel rotates it'll clean up the inners of the gas tank. Nice shinny internal gas tank ready for sum POR gas tank lining. Aidan

eddy8men · #**122** 17-12-10, 00:46

thanks for all the technical info guys, it's always good to learn new things but to be honest it's beyond my tiny little minds ability to absorb so much tech stuff so i'll stick to hitting my tracks with a big hammer, it freed mine up a treat and it had the added bonus of giving my fat arse a good workout.

eddy

Aidan · #**123** 17-12-10, 03:20

Eddyman Also it is said you can soak your tracks in molassas, i guess the acid eats away the rust,also Coke a cola.

Aidan

RichardT10829 · #**124** 17-12-10, 08:13

Molassas do work very well however over a longer period of time, circa two weeks for larger items. Coca Cola contains citric acid which does clean. You can make a vat with 3 %citric acid and soak the item you then have to take it out after 24hours wire brush it then soak for another 24 hours, then wirebrush / jet wash the oxidised waste from the metal. it works well but you have to really flush he steel properly then use a heat gun or blow torch to heat the metal and thoroughly dry it out otherwise it oxidises very quickly.

here is a good demo of this process

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckdMdiJlV7c

and likewise a good example of results from an electrolysis bath for large items... this one is four parts and the link i have put is part four

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35nmK...D41B7&index=18

gary_bath_jr · #**125** 17-12-10, 15:32

Hey Richard

Thanks for those links, I checked out some of the other vids there and found some showing the Strong Arm Sprays to remove rust, that produst looks pretty amazing to remove rust from everything.

Gary

Bob Carriere · #**126** 17-12-10, 16:39

I used a more agressive approach to de -rusting...

Using a 45 gal. barrell with thetop cut off....filled with water and lye solution form rural hardware store.... used up to two batteries and a battery charger.

Batteries would drain in about one hour.... battery charger was hot...

Installed a sheet of Stainless Steel around the perimetre of the drum ..about 6 square feet.......SS will last longer in a strong solution....Suspended complete axles in the barrell using the bucket of the tractor..... did one end... reversed for other half....

working outside H gas was not a serious concern.... the lye solution really removes grease from your bare hands.... and some skin...

Rinsed with a high pressure water gun and sun dried..... sprayed with Phosphoric acid to etch....sun dried again ....iron phosphate dust rub down lightly with 3M pad...... paint with POR.

Lye is dangerous and toxic..... advantage is that it also removes any paint and degreases the inner part of the axle tube.....

Empty drum on a rainy day when ground is already soaked with water.... skimming the greasy oil lumpy scum from the surface is recommended.

Remember that the bigger the parts.... the bigger the sacrificial plate... the stronger the solution the faster and hotter things will get.

Keeping pets and kids away is mandatory..... all these processes can be dangerous but then so is the torch, plasma cutter, grinder, etc.....

Bob C.

eddy8men · #**127** 18-12-10, 14:42

now my tracks are freed up (the hard way) i was going to blast them and coat them in a thinned down bitumen paint and leave them out in the sun or give them a going over with a blow torch. i don't know if they originally had a black finish to them but modern tracks always come with what i assume is a bitumen based preservative coating, anyone got any idea's on this.

eddy

RichardT10829 · #**128** 18-12-10, 15:07

not sure i know during war time they wee raw steel no paint etc etc. that said i will still do my tracks in a black coating

Jordan Baker · #**129** 18-12-10, 16:47

I woulnd't bother painting the tracks as there really is no need. Mine haven't moved in 1.5 yrs (no engine back yet) There is a bit of surface rust and thats it. As soon as you go for a drive on dirt and grass they clean right up.

What is your reasons for wanting to paint them black?

Lynn Eades · #**130** 18-12-10, 18:44

Because "Mick" (jagger) said "Paint it Black"

George McKenzie · #**131** 18-12-10, 19:43

I was l looking on You tube at the sites on getting rid of rust Lots of different ways Worth a look geoege

eddy8men · #**132** 18-12-10, 22:49

i was going to paint them black as in my experience tracks always come with a black coating painted on them and i think it might look quite smart, how long it will last i don't know, i'll just have to try it and see for myself.

eddy

RichardT10829 · #**133** 19-12-10, 00:55

likewise here Eddy plus against the desert cammo it will look rather nice...kinda concourse in the tank/carrier world.... and at the end of the day it can easily be removed / worn off.

each to their own....if you look at John Bizals carrier he did the same as i want to do with my tracks.

eddy8men · #**134** 19-12-10, 12:16

to be honest i got the idea from looking at john bizal's carrier aswell, i think john got them powder coated, i don't plan on doing anything as fancy or as expensive as that, just a blast with my grit gun and a bit of thinned down roofing sealant that i had left over from a job should do the trick for me. i don't plan on trying to get my carrier as good as john's immaculate mk1, infact i've left the bullet holes and damages side skirts on as i'm going for the "used look"

eddy

RichardT10829 · #**135** 19-12-10, 12:26

I am aiming to get mine as nice as David's T16 (Horsa) which is a very tall order but none the less that is my bench mark. Once I have finished dipping the track it will be coated in a hard stone chip I am aware that it will wear through but I am happy with that. I am beginning to toy with the idea of doing the caunter scheme on the hull but the only thing that is stopping me is caunter was not used after Alamein 42... My grandads regiment were reforming and training in Callender (Scotland) at this point, he then went to Madagascar, India, Iraq, Persian theater of ops, Tunisia bizzerta, Scicily Then got evac'd to hospital during op Husky then re badged as 2/4th KOYLI sept 19th 1943 landing on uncle green beach Salerno Italy.....finishing his war early 45 to return home to take care of the family business as his father had died of a heart attack.

so much to think about ! I don't want yet another green carrier though....not really into the SCC2 brown either... so that leaves desert scheme the scheme i had planned on was light stone base with dark brown / black disruptive pattern

tankbarrell · #**136** 19-12-10, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddy8men

to be honest i got the idea from looking at john bizal's carrier aswell, i think john got them powder coated, i don't plan on doing anything as fancy or as expensive as that, just a blast with my grit gun and a bit of thinned down roofing sealant that i had left over from a job should do the trick for me. i don't plan on trying to get my carrier as good as john's immaculate mk1, infact i've left the bullet holes and damages side skirts on as i'm going for the "used look"

eddy

I painted my M5 HST tracks with thinned down bitumen paint and it still looks good on the undamaged areas 13 years later. Very different to carrier track though as most of that will be incontact with the ground to some extent and the paint will last but seconds!

RichardT10829 · #**137** 19-12-10, 14:37

Adrian, the main cleat bar will wear clean but the horns and main cast i think will last some time...who knows still going to give it a whirl....Perhaps John could shed some light on how long his lasted as he restored his carrier some few years back now.

tankbarrell · #**138** 19-12-10, 15:06

It depends on the ground conditions but the only part likely to remain painted will be the outer surface of the horns.

I feel it is worth doing as it looks much better when first restored.

eddy8men · #**139** 19-12-10, 22:02

i'll get my tracks done in the next few weeks and post up some pics but i won't be able to fit them on the carrier and really test them out for a couple of months as the engine's being rebuilt and won't be ready for a while.

eddy

George McKenzie · #**140** 20-12-10, 22:27

Wonder what powder coating would be like ? It would be tougher than paint

ajmac · #**141** 21-12-10, 00:22

Powder coating is a waste of time for anything that you intend to use in anger! I powder coated a Triumph Spitfires front suspension componants and a Land-Rover Petrol tank and both rusted very badly as the coating holds in the damp in perfect corrosive environment! I would have thought that if tracks were coated at all (which I guess they were) that a type of chemical black would have been used. It is still done in the UK, I had a No4 Mk1 Enfield acid dipped and re-blacked about 10 years ago in Stourbridge, West Midlands.

kevin powles · #**142** 21-12-10, 00:51

Hi Rich, What I did was clean the track up with a rotary wire brush, I figured grit blasting would trap alot of grit in with the pins, then i sprayed the track in zinc rich primer, gives a grey finish, then i dipped the track in gallons of what we call at work 'reactor black', which is a high carbon heat resistant primer, we use it to paint all surfaces on the two nuclear reactors here at Sizewell A and associated machinery, It gives a semi gloss black finish and is non-flaking, used it because its free.

But like most people have said a few runs out in mud and on the road, it soon disappears on all the contact surfaces, but the zinc tends to stay in place.

It looks nice when you first paint it. I have attached a pic with the track freshly done, you can compare to one track link which isnt painted at the front.

Kevin.

The Bedford Boys · #**143** 21-12-10, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmac

Powder coating is a waste of time for anything that you intend to use in anger! I powder coated a Triumph Spitfires front suspension componants and a Land-Rover Petrol tank and both rusted very badly as the coating holds in the damp in perfect corrosive environment! I would have thought that if tracks were coated at all (which I guess they were) that a type of chemical black would have been used. It is still done in the UK, I had a No4 Mk1 Enfield acid dipped and re-blacked about 10 years ago in Stourbridge, West Midlands.

I agree with this entirely. Powder coating really isn't a good idea for exterior automotive applications. Powder coating is crap for vehicles because it chips easily, then flakes and water gets in and rots the piece out. I wouldn't even bother putting it anywhere near carrier track!! I've got a list of things you could waste your money on instead if your looking to do that...

I don't think they would have bothered with any rust-preventitive at all to be honest. The track would've been well worn out before rust became an issue to them. As has been said, carrier track polishes up nice when you run it through grass etc.

George McKenzie · #**144** 08-01-11, 20:05

I am just finnishing up a 1930 A Ford car and the club guys tell me to power coat the spoke wheels . In the trucking we use Endura on the trailers .It doesn't chip and is a tough paint .but is hard to remove if you want to do a different color . As far as the tracks go, The only time you would paint them is for a static display . On our constriction track machines the paint is gone on the tracks in just a short while .

RichardT10829 · #**145** 08-01-11, 23:42

i know i know but it would look really good for like 3 minutes..

George McKenzie · #**146** 09-01-11, 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

i know i know but it would look really good for like 3 minutes..

If you were to paint the tracks I would recommend ENDURA paint Dupont sells it .Its like porcelain enamel ,really hard paint , but hard to take off .

RichardT10829 · #**147** 11-02-11, 14:54

Well been busy in the garage the past few weeks, lots of welding and drilling, slowly but surely getting through the boring stuff, i am struggling to get the pedals out i cant get in to cut the bolts with grinder, the bolts too rotten to undo and as they are countersunk into the plate, they cant be cut from the outside....i am considering drilling now

finished the frame rails on the front drilled and tidied, also patched up the glacis plate. there are some holes in the floor which have been burnt in possibly to facilitate drainage which i will weld up.

seats, steering column flangey brackety thing and gear gate all removed now along with steering bell cranks... all are stripped down for cleaning painting and rebuild.

bulkhead is welded up now, need to weld up a small burnt hole where the passenger seat mounts and drill the angle bar holes back in, then she is good....that will be done tomorrow. i have all the armour lying about the garage waiting to be mounted properly (been dry fitted a few times now) all that remains are the intake ducts then that is the primary hull just about done. i have the shutters just need to drill the plate and countersink it....also need the spacers for the shutters.

Iam toying with shot blasting the hull but its bloody expensive. may just go over it with wire wheel (the hull is pretty good not much pitting at all)

anyways here are some pics.

RichardT10829 · #**148** 11-02-11, 14:57

RichardT10829 · #**149** 08-04-11, 20:02

well its been a while since i updated anything ! basically i have been having to sort out my storage situation... basically my carrier is spread between a number of premises the hull was at my mothers place, most of the damaged parts were at my place, and until a few months ago my engine was in Lincoln ! Now problems occured when my mother sold her house so the hull had to go, and after heavy snowfall here over the winter months, it had caused terrific damage to my garage which is collapsing.....so i have had to move the carrier into a factory unit at great expense (for my small wallet) and have demolished my own garage which i am currently going through the planning phase to have built into a 30sqft workshop.

On the carrier front the armour is mounted and welded in situ the holes are drilled and ready for rivets. i had the wheels and bogeys removed but due to quickly needing to move the carrier i threw on the worst ones i had in my collection (all jiggered) i can tell you as a slight bloke lifting the front bogeys back onto the shaft by hand was tough...but dooable. the hull is to be shot blasted before etch prime high build prime then base / disruptive. the control surfaces have been stripped free'd off and primed ready to be built back in. i have to make a battery cradle, and battery box for the radio. the rails need bolting on along with the pintle mounts and antenna bracket. i have the correct angle for the rails just need the legnths if anyone can help.

here are some shots taken today

my super accurate numbering on the side...bet you wish yours was as genuine as this !

RichardT10829 · #**150** 08-04-11, 20:03

new temporary home

and a quick comparrison to show what i started with

PS Martyn its the wrong shade of yellow to be a skip ! hahahahaha