Carrier Data plates

[George McKenzie]

Take another look I hit the wrong number this is a a MK1 plate

[RichardT10829]

ahh yes please can you stick me down for some of them ?

Cheers again

Richie

[George McKenzie]

I will check with the manufacture as to how soon he wants to start making these plates .The publication plate can be run off anytime so they will be all the same .But some of our carriers are in storage and can't get to them for information so those may have to wait for a second run . Now for the information on the plate .Modle can be found by what type of carrier you have MK1 or MK!! ,and a #1 #2 or #3 ect. Serial # was on the top of the front armament ,but can be guessed at if you have other numbers on the hull .Engine number is on the top of the clutch housing under the mounting bracket for the oil cooler regulater valve . my Mk 11 has a rebuilt motor At the end of the war they ran out of motor blocks and had to use rebuilt motors from vehicles . The CD # Where does this number come from ? Is is the production number of this modle of carrier made ?You will see it on other carriers . such as 2609 . 1555 .Nigel Watson"s book has alot of numbers for carriers . the Built date was on the front armor .If it,s gone you will have to do some more calculating to get it . Can anyone add to this or correct me on this ? By making more plates at the same time we will get a better price

[martyn]

any one got a good photo of a mk2 british plate its mounted on the front wing?
cheers martyn

[George McKenzie]

Just a suggestion If you are having trouble finding numbers because the armor was cut off .The CT # doesn't go on the plate .It is like a lisence plate number on you car .The serial comes from the CB # behind the gunners head and can be the same or up to a few numbers different .The hull number is close to the CB number, one or two from it .The lower hull number is the one you most likely have and is not on the plate.Nigel Watson was able to get me a CT # and date , that will be within 80% correct from using the lower hull number .If you can find a lower hull number plate that is close to yours you can fill in the missing numbers with doing a little adding and subtracting . Can anyone add to this or correct me on what I know . When you have your numbers figured out send it to David Kelone address back in this site .

[Ralph Volkert]

It is interesting what you think is common knowledge and isnt or I have wrong.

Here is what I have in the case of my MkI carrier

Model UC MKI

Lower Hull Number 8105

Upper Hull Number CB 8075

Serial Number 9075
Build date Aug 42

Engine Serial # TL-8078

C.D. 213 contract defence # you carrier was built to Can be looked up)

upper and lower hull numbers are within 100 or so at least in the mkIs mine is an earlier one and is within 30

Serial # is CB# + 1000 again may be off +/- a few numbers due to lack of computers

My understanding was 0 - 1000 was reserved for prototypes but not positive.


CT number not a production piece of info but as stated earlier a vehicle number like a Licence Plate # but non transferable

Engine Serial # will be close to UHULL #

I hope this helps

[George McKenzie]

Thanks for your information . I found another carrier that has the serial number the same as the lower hull number .Thats a new one to me .And another one that the hull number is the same as the CB number and the serial number is two from it .I would sure like a copy of the Canadian carriers I still have alot of guys wanting plates .Send your information of your carrier to David Kelone at DKelone@aol.com .George

[rob love]

Here is some data we gleaned from 5 carriers we robbed from in Northern Ontario. I'll list them from lowest serial to highest so you can see how they drifted apart (and together again) over production.

1: Early mk1 std carrier carrier, no numbers on front armour, fender data plate missing:
Div Plate CB607
Hull no 752

2: CT no T51269 date mfgr 9-42
Front armour 4678
Div plate CB3704
Hull no 3698

3: CT no. CT113354 10-23-1942
Front armour 11101
Div Plate CB10099
Hull no 10094

4: CT no CT163013 1-19-1943
Front armour 13204
Div Plate CB12236
Hull no. 12289

5: Mk1 mortar carrier June 43 (CT numbers rusted: not legible)
Front armour 17781
Div Plate CB16789
Hull no 16881
Contract CD1555

Not sure if this will help anyone, but it might give you some idea as to the spread of serial numbers over production. I believe 3 of these were mortar carriers. All were mk1, and the last one had the Ford ofCanada plate usually seen on MK2s attached to the division plate behind the drivers head.

[c dressel]

Hi Rob
I am really confused, with your numbers my carrier should have been built in 43.
this is what is across the armour edge, CT 113184 - 9 -> 1942 FORD 10217
on the rear angle iron is 9233. It is a little late to go to the shop tonight but I will go tomorrow on the way home from work and look at it again to be sure

[rob love]

Originally Posted by c dressel

Hi Rob
I am really confused, with your numbers my carrier should have been built in 43.
this is what is across the armour edge, CT 113184 - 9 -> 1942 FORD 10217
on the rear angle iron is 9233. It is a little late to go to the shop tonight but I will go tomorrow on the way home from work and look at it again to be sure

You're right. Despite my proofread,I buggered that up. I fixed it now, CT113354 was indeed a 42. It also had DND markings of 42-1-8591 and T56 749

It looks like all these numbers pretty much equal up to what Ralph was saying: div (CB) number and hull number are fairly close to each other, and the serial is around 1000 higher.

[derk derin]

Rob,
I just had a look at my carrier and my rear hull number is 3828.What kind of data should I put down for the data plate to be made for my carrier?

MODEL- UC MK-1
SERIAL- HULL-3828
ENGINE-
CD- BUILT-

Because my carrier is a fairly early production,the CD number should be the same as a carrier with a close lower hull number and build date?
I just had another look at your info and carrier #2 shows a hull number of 3698 and the serial number is 980 digits higher to 4678.Should I go with this pattern and put down a serial number of 4808? Your info shows it made in 9-42.Would it be correct for me to use this as a build date for mine also?
What do you think?
Derk.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Rob,
I just had a look at my carrier and my rear hull number is 3828.What kind of data should I put down for the data plate to be made for my carrier?

MODEL- UC MK-1
SERIAL- HULL-3828
ENGINE-
CD- BUILT-

Because my carrier is a fairly early production,the CD number should be the same as a carrier with a close lower hull number and build date?
I just had another look at your info and carrier #2 shows a hull number of 3698 and the serial number is 980 digits higher to 4678.Should I go with this pattern and put down a serial number of 4808? Your info shows it made in 9-42.Would it be correct for me to use this as a build date for mine also?
What do you think?
Derk.

Your math sounds about right on the serial number. Engine number would be around TL382X. I don't have a lot of data about the contract numbers, just the one I posted above. Perhaps you will luck in and find someone else who has a carrier in your serial range and get their contract number.

[Ralph Volkert]

Here is my list of carriers (candian I believe). Still not sure of difference between CT and T numbers. Thought CT was canadian and T was british. If so might explain discrepancy in listings.

I have already added the numbers recently posted. Rob could you double check your numbers.

Any one else I would love to have your numbers to add to this list. please mail to me and I will keep this list updated.

For Those of us who have to extrapolate missing info this should really help.

[Jordan Baker]

HI Ralph

Great list. I see you have my carrier on there as "CT51176". It should actually be "T51176"

I also found a T51101 not too far from me. It had a date of March,42 on it.

According to Nigel Watsons list they should be under contract CDLV213 as anti tank carriers. This might explain why the have "T" #'s and not "CT" However to muck it up even more "T51101" was a standard UCmk1* with most of the bits still on it. There was nothing done to it to ever suggest it was an anti tank carrier at some point.


Now trying to figure out the info for my data tag set. This is all I have that was stamped onto the top of the front armour. Can you guys help me come up with the rest of the info I'd need for my plate.

"T 51176 4 1942 Ford 6472"

[rob love]

Good list Ralph. All the numbers on my paper match your list. Any consideration to adding the CB numbers to your list?

I will post the data off my carrier's serial plate which I'll collect when I am in the shop today.

Derk: Ralph's list seems to answer your question re your contract number: CD213 seems to be common for all the first 12,000 or so carriers.

[derk derin]

Hi Ralph,
Thanks for posting the list,it confirms to me I can use CD-213 on my plate and Rob's data showing a serial number 3698 built in SEPT 42 and George's data plate showing a serial number 10319 also built SEPT 42 confirms to me that my carrier was built in SEPT 42.
Rob's data on carrier hull #3698 and serial #4678 - 980 digits apart:
George's data on carrier hull #9305 and serial #10319 = 1014 digits apart.This tells me my serial # range can be roughly 1000 digits apart from my hull number.
I need an engine number.Rob you mentioned I should have a TL 382-X or should it have a 4 digit number? I am almost done!
Thanks for all the info,
Derk.

[Jordan Baker]

Ok so the info I have for mine is T 51176 4 1942 Ford 6472

CT# T51176

Model UC MKI*
Lower Hull Number ???
Upper Hull Number CB ???
Serial Number ???
Build date April 42

Engine Serial # TL-????

C.D. 213

Which field does the "6472" fit into. And can anyone shed some light on some of the other numbers. Im sooo confused.

[derk derin]

Ralph just cleared up the issue of my BUILD date being in the MARCH 42 range of carriers.Rob are you sure your build date for carrier #3698 is 9-42 or 3-42.
Derk.

[rob love]

I think I see where the confusion is coming from on this carrier. I only have the data that Gordon Falk and I wrote down when we were salvaging stuff from the carriers. Gordon actually had the good sense to do this. I have the original scribblings somewhere on one of the old carrier postcards from the RCHA museum. I'll see if I can find it.

Anyway, what I suspect, looking at the typed out sheet, is that the -9-42 is missing the first digit before the -, which would have been the month. So the carrier could well be something earlier.

Derk: TL 382-X: I meant for the X to be some other digit on the end. It would appear that it could be within 20 of the hull number. So, for instance, TL3825 would be approximate to your engine number.

[rob love]

Here is the data from my serial number plate:
UCmk2*
serial 13295
hull 12290
engine TL-13380
CD1555 Jan 43

From the front armourC: CT163035 Jan 21 1943 13295

And from the division plate CB12290

[kevin powles]

Hi Robe, Can you post a picture of your data plate please as my carrier's CT number is 163057 which is 22 numbers away from yours.

cheers kevin.

[Ralph Volkert]

Oops I hope this doesnt show up twice.
Here is new rev of list.

Rob is that a 3" Mortar carrier?

[rob love]

Originally Posted by kevin powles

Hi Robe, Can you post a picture of your data plate please as my carrier's CT number is 163057 which is 22 numbers away from yours.

cheers kevin.

Here is a photo. If you need a better one, I can try again with some better lighting.

Ralph: I had no signs of it being a mortar carrier, but then again, despite it having been an ebay carrier represented as "all original", the upper armour was off a later carrier than the lower, and the entire back armour was a fake. I have only included the numbers relevant to the upper armour.

[Ralph Volkert]

There were 1,053 3" mortar Carriers made in 1943
(188 in 1942)

All your numbers put it in line with those.

That said who knows what happened since then. It has been said that that post war some were refitted to infantry use.

If you wanted you could justifiably kit it out that way.

LOL or not

[George McKenzie]

This is one set of mixed up numbers .and little information ,but if we can post enough numbers we can solve this thing our selves .Thanks for the info sofar . this is what I know

Lower hull number at the back This is not on your plate but can be the same as your serial number or close to it ( my MK11) is the same CB number behind the gunners head Is less than the lower Hull number about 100numbers or less
HULL number about 500 less than the CB number or 100 more than the lower hull number
SERIAL number on the top right end of the front armor .read from the front.
Can be same as the lower hull number or up to 1000 different more or less
ENGINE number TL xxxx - F any where form 3 to 2000 over the lower hull number
CD A number the GOVE used to order a groupe of carriers also shown as WD number
BUILD DATE If you have 7 numbers for you CT number the last number will give you the month .You will have to compare other carriers to get this info
CT number is like a license number Painted on the sides and stamped on the front armor up to 6 numbers ect: CT25848.4 the 4 is MAR year
Front armor reading from the front should look like this ( serial)# 1944 APR CT25743.4 Nigel Watsons book VOL 1 has WD numbers and contract numbers Hope this is clear as mud will give you a start for your numbers George

[kevin powles]

Robe, That was fast getting that picture, Have you got one which is a little clearer, reason being I want to send the guy making the plates a picture of it as it is the same contract number as mine.

My CT is 163057, Build date of 1943 has a 5 in front of it so MAY.

This is what i plan to put on it. my hull number is badly corroded but the first two didgits are clear.

Model UCMK-2*
SERIAL 14567 HULL 13382
ENGINE TL - 7087F
CD-1555 BUILT MAY 43

Just as a note two id's on here are :


CT 163013, hull 12289, serial 13204 (described as front armour number).

CT 163035, hull 12290, serial 13295

Thanks Kevin.

[Jordan Baker]

You guys are really messing me up using different names for the same thing.

So just so Im clear on this. Im only talking about the Mk1 style of data tags as pictured below.

For the data tag, when it says "serial" this refers to the number stamped on the front armour after the date?

When is says "hull" is this the upper hull # or the lower hull #?

[kevin powles]

Jordan, glad you through that question in there, I think the serial is as you have described, but upper or lower hull number?, now i am confused. hope these help from the ford manual.

[kevin powles]

Hi, Found this written by Nigel, looks like its the upper hull CB number to be put on the data plate.

I'm glad to help with input if required. I mentioned to Richie that I had started a Register of Carriers in 2003 but time prevented its advance. I have 25 carriers on record, some have changed hands since then so everything requires to be started again I think.

The important information and terminology should be that laid down at the time of production as this is how it was stamped on the armour and recorded on the plates and ledgers.
This is (according to UC-F1 Manual):
Stamped on top edge of front armour in front of driver.
L-R viewed from front
1. WD.No. Beginning with T or CT (Maybe others)
2. Horizontal Arrow pointing right if present is the Government Inspection Board of the UK and Canada approval of the assembly and stowage of the vehicle.
3. A numeral designating the month of the year the vehicle was produced.
4. The year the vehicle was produced eg 1942
5. Manufacturers Logo (I have only seen Ford script but no others!).
6. Next is the Vehicle Serial Number
7. Arrow Approval Mark signifying vehicle approved after field tests completed.

Stamped on the plate:
Model: For a MkI it is UC-1
Serial: Is the Vehicle Serial Number
Hull: Is the number stamped on the angle iron behind the commander's seat, sometimes referred to as the Upper Hull No. by us!
Engine: Engine Number assigned by manufacturer, stamped on the top of the clutch housing under the mounting bracket for the oil cooler regulator valve and the top of the cylinder block at the right edge of the valve chamber cover.
Order: This is the Order Number or Contract Number for the vehicle. Many vehicles will share this number if made under the same Contract.We also have the number stamped in the rear which we call the Lower Hull Number, this should be logged as well just in case we find a link between the two 'hull' numbers in the future.

There also needs to be some way of logging in oddities! Different numbers/letters in non-standard places on carriers, like the 47 on my edge armour!

Some other thoughts to run at the same time:
a. Original Lettering that has been found under paint.
b. A log of all wartime WD Nos and associated Carrier Types with photo ref: be it in a publication, on film, from collection, on ebay...anywhere. (mammoth job but what a great reference source!)

Geoff is there anyway you could incorporate a form that we can access from MLU and be able to send to whoever is going to collate the information? That way if the form is done accurately it would be a question of collecting/saving the forms.

If I can work out how to take a picture of a MS Publisher Document that is on my computer I will upload what I had done in 2003.

Good Christmas to you all, and keep on the tracks!

Nigel

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks Kevin

After I posted my last posting, I found those pages in the manual. Basically I now need to find a upper hull # and an engine # for my data tag.