Early war gun tractors

[chrisgrove]

Hi guys

If this works, you ought to see, or at least get a link to, some pics of the No 24 limber. As far as I can ascertain, this was in fact the first 25 pounder limber, thus the gun behind it should be an 18/25 pounder. However, numerous pics are captioned as 18 pounders. It is very hard (to me) to tell the difference on some of the versions, so I am not entirely sure!

Please note, I got all mixed up and called it the No 23 limber sometimes, and since it is on CD, I can't change it!

Chris

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...berno23-03.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...berno23-02.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...berNo24-01.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...berno23-04.jpg

[CWO (ret) Gilles Aubé]

Thanks Chris for the pictures now it is clear.
Gilles

[mudeng]

Looking at the photos, the gun being towed is the 4.5" Howitzer.
It has the Martin Parry conversion to fit pneumatic tyres.
The axletree was fitted with a stub axle on a "hanger", so a smaller diameter wheel could be fitted, but the gun remained at the same height.

It has a very distinctive cut out on the left to take the "bar sight".

The limber is also for the 4.5, and very distinctive, as it has two compartments, front and rear, with a horizontal bar, and vertical bars.

These Limbers, like the guns were adapted from WWI stocks.

From data I have, limbers were classified as follows:

Type 23 for the 3.7" Howitzer
Type 24 pre war use for the 18/25pdr, obsolete by 1940.
Type 27 replaced the type 24, and the most commom limber seen with the 25pdr.
Type 26, used for the 4.5" howitzer. similar to WWI pattern.
Type 29, used for the 18pdr, again, WWI pattern, fitted with pneumatic wheels.

How can I be sure, well Resicast are about to bring out 1/35th models of the equipment, and I made the masters for them, see attached.
Apologies for the "free publicity", but if any-one has any other info on these limbers as used in WWII, there are still a few minor details that need clarification.

Thanks

George

[Keith Brooker]

British Gun & Limber left in the Dunkirk area 1940. think there is a Austin in the background. Photo from my collection.

[mudeng]

Thanks Keith, nice one of the 18/25pdr.

From what I have seen, and I have quite a few photos taken around the Dunkirk evacuation period, and some show fields full of captured British guns, the type 27 limber, shown in your photo was the only one in service for the 18/25pdr. I have yet to see the type 24.

The type 24 was certainly used pre-war for this gun, and usually towed by the Morris CDSW "Toast-rack". There are numeropus shots of the Morris, abandoned in France, also, there are some shots of the Morris FAT and Guy FAT.

This is what makes this particular period with the BEF so fascinating. I think, during the retreat, anything and everything was used. I have one photo of a Morris FAT with 18 pdr, and evidence that the type 27 limber was also used for the 18 pdr.

The limbers I have done though were based on the drawings in the book by Len Trawin, it shows the limbers for the 18pdr and 4.5 howitzer, plus details from Fire-power Woolwich, has some details of those limbers in use with pneumatic wheels.

Most of what I have has come from the Bob Gregory collection, another BEF nut.

George.

[Keith Brooker]

Yes i am a BEF nut as well.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's another of those elusive limbers:

Originally Posted by m606paz

Singapor - Date taken: April 1941 - Photographer: Carl Mydans

[Andrew Foulkes]

George

Thanks for clarifying these limber types. I have been puzzling over these for a while. I would appreciate your help with one further point: Alan Turner, who was doing some work on photos at Firepower, sent me a picture of an 18 pdr limber with a Martin Parry conversion but the caption is that it is a MkVIIB (as in the attached picture). Is that an earlier name before it was classified as a 'Type 29'?

It is also worth mentioning that if anyone wants to see a 4.5 inch howitzer with Martin Parry conversion up close, there is one in excellent condition in the Muckleburgh collection in Norfolk (as in the second picture).

Andrew