Options for 8.25 x 10 Tires

[horsa]

Failing there being a source for useable original military tires in the 8.25 x 10 size, what are people using as a substitute for 6-pounder guns and towed 4.2-inch mortars? Figure there must be a compatible size ATV or forklift type tire with a decent tread out there.

I've currently got 8.50 x 10 aircraft tires which will need to be replaced one day in the future and I'd prefer to not put balloon tires on again.

Interested in hearing what others are using with their toys since I know people are always looking for replacement rubber.

[rob love]

Could you not use the American mule tires? They are 7.50 X 10. A bit smaller, but they are available new.

I did a mockup restoration of a 6 pounder a decade back. I ended up welding a set of 6 pounder rims into Iltis 16" rims and installation 7X16 non directionals on it. They are a bit big, but again, fresh and safe for city towing.

[horsa]

I guess Mule tires would fit the rims based on the measurements. Think they stand up slightly higher from checking specs on one of the mule sites. What I'm still searching around for is an ATV or small tractor type tire with the solid chevron lugs. Several look similar to the originals but the better looking patterns don't seem to be available in the 8" width with 10" rim.

Has anyone out there successfully used Mule tires or other agricultural patterns on a 6-pdr rim?

For the towed mortar, they first used the same wheel and 16" tire found on the airborne trailers. I've torn my wheel hubs down to see if it was adapted for the 6-prd rim but they apparently used a new hub when they switched the tire patterns out and adopted the 6-pdr rim sometime in 1945 so that kills the option of going back to an airborne rim and tire for lack of functional hubs that will interchange.

[David DeWeese]

Hi,
Don't know if this is any help, but Carlisle makes a 7.50-10 that is fairly rugged. Sidewall shows "Industrial All Purpose, tube type, load range E".
They are 8-ply tread and 4-ply sidewall and are highway rated for 1700 lbs each IIRC.
I use these on my ATV trailer....bought locally.
Thanks, David

[horsa]

Appreicate the lead and shots of what the Carlisle tires look like. I'm still holding out a bit for a wartime military or implement tread but I know they used a lot of civilian road tires as well. Not many options for the small and wide sizes.

[Gunner]

Hi Dave:

I have the same headache with my 6 Pr. Aircraft tyres are actually what the originals were based on! I have been using mule tyres for several years and have gotten a lot of milage out of them... I'm going to order two new ones in the spring to do a tyre swap... the old ones are starting to show canvas after 12 years!

I recently found a homemade trailer using a 6 Pr axle. It had a 6 Pr tyre on one side and an aircraft tyre on the other. The 6 Pr tyre popped when 30 PSI was added... too bad as it had lots of tread on it but clearly no sidewall strength left.

I may see if I can find used 8.50x10 aircraft tyres. I know that they have to replace them after so many cycles even if they still look good.

Cheers! Mike

[horsa]

Used would be the way to go with aircraft tires since they are 10 ply and would still last a long time with something lightweight that was towed. But like the U.S. NDT patterns, they just don't seem right to me.

Attached is a shot of an off-road forklift tire I'm considering. It's for a 10" rim and the section width is 7.9 so would be pretty close to the wartime lugged tires. Less than half an inch off in expanded width so not all that apparent. And while they are also not correct, they project a closer look and feel to the heavy wartime tread I think. Cost is comparable to the modern civilian trailer tires. The inner rim width of the 6-pdr/towed mortar is 5 inches and these have a recommended inner rim size of 5.5 inches. They make another with the same tread for a true 5 inch inner rim size but the section width is 7 inches which is 1 1/4 inches narrower than the wartime tire. I'm told either would fit with no issues though.

Down side is it isn't a highway tire. Max hardtop speed is only about 30mph. Not sure if it becomes unstable at higher speeds or if it will fall apart. But I can't see pulling artillery down the highway at cruising speed myself so don't consider it an issue.

[Grant Bowker]

I don't think the problem is stability but rather heat buildup causing disintegration. The flexing of the tire as it rolls causes heat. If the heat builds faster than it can dissipate the tire will eventually fail. To reduce the total heat buildup there are choices; reduce the speed (fewer revs/cycles per minute but still a minute to dissipate the heat), reduce the load (less flex per rev/cycle), increase inflation pressure (within limits) to reduce flex, reduce the distance (so heat never reaches the dangerous level) between cooloffs. The tradeoffs between load, speed and distance are well understood in the heavy construction equipment field but apply equally to the highway transport field. Tire makers publish load/inflation tables to describe the allowable load for highway tires at various pressures (they assume we won't actually change speed for any length of time on the highwayso they don't publish for that variable).
The need to get rid of heat also is at least part of the reason tires are lower rated in dual applications than single. With less airflow around the tire it doesn't cool as well.

[horsa]

Sounds like the implement type tire would work out fine then for my application. I'd trailer the load anyway if I needed to take it more than 10-15 miles.

[Gunner]

Hi Dave:

I've seen those tyres mounted on a 6 Pr in Artillery Park, Halifax. They look really good. The problem I had was locating them and potential cost... I think they were well over $200 per tyre when I last looked, versus $85 for the mule tyres.

Whats your source and how much are they? As I posted earlier, I'm in the market and looking at options.

Cheers and Ubique! Mike

[horsa]

I found them at the Specialty Tires web site. Through searching, it seems many vendors get their tires from this company which produces them. Link below to their site with various patterns and specs. The Industrial Deep Lug is under their Industrial Handling Equipment Tires section. They also have a range of military patterns used in the USA including the 7.5 x 10 Mule size.

http://www.stausaonline.com/

The specialty tire place only sells to dealers but they will answer tech questions and can also provide dealer company info for ordering. For me in Texas, the Wallace Wade Tire Company is closest even though I'll probably have them shipped to me. Still working out details but the wider cross section tire (7.5 x10 which is DF9C5) seems to be $135.87.

[rob love]

Wallace comes to the MVPA conventions every year. Next years (2011) convention is in Dayton Ohio, a short drive for the Southern Ontario people. One can call Wallace a couple weeks in advance and he will bring whatever tires you want from STA to the convention at the list price.

[Grant Bowker]

found on ebay today - STA Mule tires as a "buy it now" http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...E:B:SS:CA:1123
My biggest concern is that I wouldn't have thought a 4 ply rated tire in that size would carry a lot of load. I suggest checking that the capacity suits your needs before buying.

[Grant Bowker]

Firestone Super Rock Grip 12 ply for $50 each. I couldn't find data on this pattern and size for load capacity or speed rating. They aren't chevron tread but do have a lugged treas as opposed to highway tread.
http://store.colemans.com/cart/750-x...res-p-168.html

Another lugged 12 ply in 7.50-10 (but this one looks more fork lift)
http://www.profipneu.ch/default.aspx...9BD30B02F#tech
There is a load capacity given for the 12 ply rated tire but since there is no speed data given I would assume that the rating is only valid for low speeds.
http://www.titantirestore.com/store/deeptrac.html

A 2005 military tire catalog found online.
https://www.themotorpool.org/TireCat...%20Updated.pdf

[horsa]

I ended up ordering the pattern I'd posted about that Wallace Tire could get from the Specialty Tires of America company. They came in today via UPS with new flaps and tubes that I needed. The tread is really similar to the $50 Firestone tire that Coleman's shows listed. Figures something that looks the same would turn up for less money the day mine get delivered but that's how my luck seems to run

These were $135.91 and are 10 ply 7.50x10 made for a 5.5" wide rim. My towed mortar technically has 5" wide rims but I'm told there won't be an issue. Measured the actual rubber and its less than 5" wide at the bead so should bolt together with no problem and still have some room to expand when aired up.

My hard parts are being stripped this week but it might be awhile before I can get them painted and then mount the rubber. I'll update shots at that time though to show how they turned out.

[shaun]

I have just found these cut off axles and wheels in a farm junk area - they have the lugs on the rims as per gun rims , the tyres size is 10x8.25 . sorry for the poor quality of the photos.

[Marc van Aalderen]

Originally Posted by shaun

I have just found these cut off axles and wheels in a farm junk area - they have the lugs on the rims as per gun rims , the tyres size is 10x8.25 . sorry for the poor quality of the photos.

If you are selling these I would be interested but only if the tyres are not cracked.

Cheers,

[horsa]

Hey Marc,

If they don't have chunks missing and you get the tyres, you could have them filled so they become solid inside. They have a process of injecting something that hardens up to the consistency of soft rubber similar to silicon. Its solid but not hard as a rock so still gives a decent ride. And it is supposed to help hold the old tyres together so the sidewalls won't split and come apart.

If I hard wartime rubber, that's what I'd do to preserve it.

[Marc van Aalderen]

Thank you for the tip. This filling with rubber will take the air pressure of and that is a good thing on these old tyres.

I had only heard of "liquidish" rubber that you can rub in the cracks and it will then set and hide the cracks.

Cheers,

[shaun]

sorry guys, im not selling as i have only just got them for our 6pdr. the idea of filling the tyres is good. during my days in the army i was based on an airfield all the plant vehicle had foam filled tyres. Im sure a good tyre company can help.

[rob love]

We used foam filled tires on all our 4wd forklifts in Afghanistan. It almost makes the tires indestructible. Large sidewall cuts that would normally require the tire to be replaced could be ignored. I cannot comment on what the heat buildup would be with old WW2 rubber at higher speeds mind you.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Speedways makes an "INDUSTRIAL ALL PURPOSE" tyre in 8.25-10 Size in 10, 14 Ply Rating.

See http://www.speedwaystyres.com/traile...car-tyres.html

[Marc van Aalderen]

It doesn't have a military pattern but I have a picture of a 6Pdr with two different tyres and one looks like the one that you found. This might thus be a very acceptable alternative! Well found.





Cheers,

[Marc van Aalderen]

I just scrolled back to the top of this post and David's post nr4 shows Industrial All Purpose tyres with the same pattern but a different size.

Cheers,

[tankbarrell]

Originally Posted by Marc van Aalderen

It doesn't have a military pattern but I have a picture of a 6Pdr with two different tyres and one looks like the one that you found. This might thus be a very acceptable alternative! Well found.

That's a 57mm AT gun, didn't the US guns have different wheel sizes to the 6 pr?

[Marc van Aalderen]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

That's a 57mm AT gun, didn't the US guns have different wheel sizes to the 6 pr?

Hi Adrian, you could be right there. The wheels are much bigger than those on my 6 Pdr. Don't know how I overlooked that. The absence of a muzzle brake does not make it a 57mm perse. In the original 1942 6 Pdr manual that I got through Rob Nixon the pictures show a gun without muzzle brake. I can't remember from where on the web I got this picture and I didn't copy the caption.

Cheers,

[horsa]

Finally made the time to repaint the wheels for my towed mortar and got the new rubber mounted last night on my backyard deck. While still not a British wartime pattern, I'm much happier with them than I was with the aircraft balloon tyres I had. And I like them much more than a NDT U.S. pattern. Being a 10 ply, I probably won't ever notice if they are low on air pressure since the mortar is only around 5-cwt.

Now I just need to finish painting and assembling the rest of the parts.

[horsa]

We got a break in the cold temps so I was able to get the rest of the towed mortar base painted and assembled. Two shots attached to show the final result of the modern tyres mounted on the 6-pdr pattern wheels.

Interestingly, the 4.2-inch towed base design first appeared in 1944. But the wheels and related parts used on my example must have come from unused or salvaged artillery parts as they are all 1942 and 1943 dated. I'd have thought that the military would have used up all of the earlier produced components and had more current (at the time) items when they began building the portable base plates.

When first produced in 1944, these would have used wheels like the ones pictured on the airborne 10-cwt trailer also seen in the shots. Then sometime in 1945 they went to the wider and slightly lower profile 6-pdr pattern.