Bombardier ILTIS

[servicepub (RIP)]

Rob loaned me some of the project reports for the Iltis program and I was surprised to see that DND policy was to ALWYS drive the vehicle in four-wheel drive (the sole policy exceptin was when manoevering on a hard surface and sharp turns - such as a parking lot). The report states that this is better for the vehicle and does NOT result in additional wear and tear or in increased fuel useage.

[rob love]

The full time use of 4 wheel drive was considered a safety aspect, and any wear was the price of that safety. If tires were properly inflated, the scuffing and drive train wrap up would be minimal.

I do recall having to change more than the usual number of axles for wear on the RPs Iltis. It would have been subject to tight parking conditions on hard pavement.

I must say that whichever civilian figured out what to repair on the TCI boxes likely saved a lot of civilian Iltis from extinction. That was one item that was costly, and failed with regularity. Another was the turn signal flasher, especially when coupled with an old M100 with frayed wiring. I think a guy would have to do a bit of engineering to fit in a normal cost flasher.

I know what you mean about the low cost of Mutt parts Scotty. I had one for years, and the MV dealers in the US almost gave away the mutt stuff. I also had the residue from over 2 dozen M151s which made sourcing spares quite easy.

[Marc Montgomery]

this full-time 4wd issue has caused some debate in the Iltis community. And regardless of the DND claims, I personlly would NEVER drive on the street in 4wd (and don't), simply due to the excess wear on the driveline components and tyres. --especially as concerns wrap-up,...and it would increase fuel consumption.

I left mine accidently in 4wd once shortly after I got it and drove it just around the block and into the driveway and the wrap-up and resistance was immediately evident

second the idea of safety- ie improved grip on the street or highway road surface- especially in wet or otherwise slippery conditions.. is a myth, and in this false sense of security is why so many 4x4 Jeep and SUV owners end up in the ditch in winter

4x4 essentially improves traction (ie forward pulling) only. It does not change or improve resistance to lateral forces, or improve braking, both of which are more a function of the tyre grip on the road surface . It might marginally help in a sideways skid IF you know what you're doing, which 95% of people dont. So the idea of safety in 4wd ion streets and highways, is -IMHO - a myth (also shown on a couple of car TV shows)

Note: the abilities of recent very hi-tech car systems with their various highly computerized AWD systems combined with various types of viscous couplings, along with other skid control/traction technologies etc etc etc, should not be confused with the relatively simplistic 4x4 system of the Iltis

BUT-that aside, any thoughts on how many licensed-Iltis (still in military livery) do you think exist in Canada?

[rob love]

Marc
Your question about how many Iltis exist is an impossible one to answer. You could file a freedom of information request with DND to find out how many were sold publicly, as well as the fate of the remainder, then make an educated guess based on that. Alternatively, there may be ways to garner some of the info from various motor vehicle registration data banks, but even then you will not be able to count non registered ones. One thing that is cartain, you do not pass them everyday.

[Marc Montgomery]

I was sort of wondering what other -guesstimates- folks might have..
and thoughts on whether my various (and totally arbitrary) guesstimates to arrive at the final 300 guesstimate number, were totally off, slightly off or whatever.

Of the 2500 original, your impression (probably more reliable than mine) is that more than 1000 went on the civvie auction block.

--but some of those..at least at my auction, were not really restorable, but for parts.

I know that some are still in military livery, not because its easy, but because the purchaser -like me- wants to preserve them that way, but yes some folks not interested in the historical aspect leave them more or less as is while they beat around the rocks and trees with them.

But my guess is so far about 300 or so across Canada which for the moment are intended to remain or restored as military for their historical aspect. (ie by collectors) This is based on the number of "collectors" with a licensed preserved iltis that I know of who are sprinkled rather sparsely across Ont and Quebec, and the number with iltis i know about who have no interest in the historical aspect at all, and are busy modifying them and /or offroading.

so whaddya think 300 preserved/restored, running, licensed in the hands of collectors? is this high? low? why?

((BTW Rob your insight from your military and restoration experience is always extremely valued! and extremely helpful ! ))

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Mark

There is a way of looking up how many of any given make and model car truck is registered in the US I've seen hard copy printouts years ago, I suspect the same is true of Canada. I vaguely remember the report being put out by one automotive engineer society magazine.

Now the bigger question where to we find that data base online. There are several other vehicles it would be interesting to see how many are registered as on the road.

Any thoughts?

Cheers Phil

[Matthew Reid]

I would guess that there are 700 to 800 in road worthy condition across Canada and the U.S possibly more.
I have seen about 100 road worthy units for sale in just the last couple years.

There has to be a couple hundred in Alberta alone Plus they are being restored all the time. And some of the units were restored from ones that were basically just good for parts when sold off.
At this point and time I would say there are more road worthy units around than when they were auctioned off.
We also have to remember a few were sold off in the mid 90's. One of mine is a unit that was sold off in the mid 90's.

As for regisitered units I would guess 400 to 500 As my 2 road worthy units are currently not registered.

Matthew