New cast Bren gun pintles - Page 2

Philliphastings · #31 24-03-11, 03:21

Wow Ben - they look fantastic.

I'm really looking forward to getting the pintles when it's all sorted.

Thanks

Phill

Derrick Eastman · #32 24-03-11, 11:07

How much would these cost please? I would buy a full set times 2. Derrick Eastman

Ben · #33 24-03-11, 11:36

Hi

They are £45 each as shown in the picture (Pintle and lever cast in brass) I can get them machined at a small as yet to be confirmed price.

The cable covers are £8 each cast in steel as shown.

Postage will be cost price to wherever you are, or perhaps arrange collection from Beltringe, i'm sure we can arrange something.

Ben

Derrick Eastman · #34 25-03-11, 13:47

I will commit to 5 pintles and 4 headlight wiring covers.They will have to be shipped to me in canada, I only wish to get to Beltring!Do you need a down payment?PM me or email and we will settle up. Are you looking to have any other bren goodies made?

Robin Craig · #35 26-03-11, 01:34

I honestly don't mean to spoil your good work but I have a very serious question.

In forty years time how will you be able to tell the original and the re-made apart?

I ask this as it is a subject that troubles me, even though I only dabble in the Post War MVs I am very aware that we are only temporary custodians of the vehicles we have.

I have had occasion to fabricate parts for vehicles and have always discretely marked them in a way that others in future years will know the provenance of the part.

Any comments

R

Ben · #36 26-03-11, 08:11

I have actually given this some thought.

I read a book about restoring a Hawker Hurricane recovered from India. During the restoration if they had to remake a part they disgreetly added their own initial and date following the style used during the original build so the part could be identified in the future.

The pintle is identical to an original so as you point out it would be hard to tell it from an original. I have contemplated marking the back face with a date stamp. You would never see it as it's bolted to the armour but would be an identifying feature for the future. I'd need to speak to the people who want them.

Ben

RichardT10829 · #37 26-03-11, 11:33

well really this is down to unscrupulous (sp) restorers who wont disclose these things when they sell on.... i myself have a portfolio everything is documented that has been restored / re made etc etc.

if they are to be stamped Ben could i ask that it is on the hidden face as you state...after all if i was lucky enough to get my carrier in a movie i am sure it would spoil the historic appearance of the vehicle if it had BEN 2011 stamped into the face of the cast

shaun · #38 27-03-11, 01:05

with my museum professional head on i could say so much on the subject of repro parts being passed off for genuine, like making a jeep out of 99% new parts and claiming its a 1942. in fact DVLA are now clamping down on such vehicles, mainly landrovers on old tax free plates but im sure they are looking at other "reproduced" vehicles (whoops i went into a bit of a rant there, sorry guys ! ) Ben the mounts a great !

Phil Waterman · #39 27-03-11, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaun

with my museum professional head on i could say so much on the subject of repro parts being passed off for genuine, like making a jeep out of 99% new parts and claiming its a 1942. in fact DVLA are now clamping down on such vehicles, mainly landrovers on old tax free plates but im sure they are looking at other "reproduced" vehicles (whoops i went into a bit of a rant there, sorry guys ! ) Ben the mounts a great !

Hi Shaun

You raise a very interesting and important issue. I like the method used by the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington DC their policy when restoring aircraft is that parts they fabricate are Stamped as being reproduction. Once I heard about that I've tried to do the same on restoring my CMPs stuff that is non-original which might be misleading to the person after I'm gone are marked with a date installed. Generally I try to punch these in with number stamp. Of my three CMPs there is only one that I would claim to be original, the others are composites. When we re-engine a vehicle it is often the only way to able to drive the trucks.

We have all seen Jeeps and other vehicles which they basically jacked up the data plate and rolled a new vehicle up behind it and attached the data plate and called it the same vehicle. Doesn't detract from vehicle interest as examples of vehicles or from enjoying driving them.

Of course as we get further and further from the date of manufacture of any vehicle it is harder and harder to have an original vehicle. I have really enjoyed watching some of the members of the forum carefully cleaning and restoring parts, sometimes this is because a replacement is not available while other times it is because they want to retain as many parts as possible.

Cheers Phil

Robin Craig · #40 27-03-11, 19:21

My policy is like Phil's, I stamp "repro" in an unseen area my initials and the date. And declare as such if passing the vehicle into someone else's ownership.

R

Ben · #41 27-03-11, 20:49

Thank you all for your comments

I think you have a point, any parts should be marked in an unobtrusive way. The purpose as far as I'm concerned is in no way to miss lead anyone or pass them off as anything they are not, just to help fellow carrier owners furnish their vehicles.

I think in a funny sort of way the concern you are showing just confirms how good they look compared to the original and reassures me that they will look the part once fitted to a vehicle.

Ben

RichardT10829 · #42 28-03-11, 00:19

Ben i would like to thank you for doing the leg work on this, we seem to have gone from discussing production of a good quality replacement to ethics on the use of them...... god bless the human race

suppose if you scribe in repro and a date on the inside, then for what ever reason if someone wants to remove them at a later date (for why i would not know) then who ever removes them can see they were not cast during the war. alternate ruin your good work by stamping in stuff in visable place...like a visible vin i suppose.....

personally i dont think this should have to be your responsibility (its a lot of extra work for you and stamping cast brass can cause breakages) IMHO its down to the individual to list down what is new and original on their carriers.... for me its all documented and i will stamp the part somehow.....so i guess if this is the case i should stamp all the armour plate ? and the segments of post war steel that i have stitched into the original platework to complete my bulkhead then there are the re rubbered wheels corr that will be a nightmare. now technically those who pilfered bits from other carriers for their own should do the same ? stamping in some denomination that indicates they were not fitted at factory...or fitted during restoration.

i am a big believer of honesty but the question must surely be raised....where do you stop ? and how do you justify where you stop ?

i will no doubt get flamed for this post but its a fair and valid thought is it not ?

we are leapyears away with this from what has been mentioned regarding ringing of chassis etc etc... this i firmly frown upon

Phil Waterman · #43 28-03-11, 00:55

Hi All

Please excuse any unintentional negative inference in my comments.

Ben should take any concern about not being able to tell his parts from good condition original very much as a compliment for taking the time to do a really good job.

Might I suggest that we start a new thread, not related to any particular restoration project, to discuss how to convey the history of vehicles and their parts. The photo albums that most the restorers on this forum seem to keep document the meticulous care taken in both restoring "original" parts and the fabrication of missing or un-restoreable parts.

Cheers Phil

Again my apologies

Lynn Eades · #44 28-03-11, 01:24

Firstly Ben I think your castings look great!
Second Rich, you are right this should be a separate thread.
By the way you cant stop there. I have no idea what you are talking about with "ringing chassis" Please explain.
Some people are lucky or prepared enough to have aquired a carrier that needs a bit of paint, and the oil levels checked. A quick flick of the wrist and she's fully restored.
The other 99 out of a 100 have carriers in a different state. I see a Loyd on this forum being rebuilt (or is it "built from scratch")
I know that Ben is also pretty brave/ bold starting from where he is.
My LP will be about 20% one carrier 20% another. bits of English or Canadian
( some original parts from Canada were used anyhow) I will make a lot of bits.
I cannot find info on it to detail the dash board area. I will have to "wing it"
If I do the best I can, am I doing a restoration, or is it going to be a jalopy?
I never planned to mark any bits I make. Maybe I should be?

George McKenzie · #45 28-03-11, 04:09

In the auto restorations the drive line is the only thing that is important to keep it original .I am the second owner of a 1928 A Ford cvt that is original ,but it has a honey comb radiater and a single plate glass windsheild .Ford said he never did this in his cars .This likely was done at the factory because they probly ran out of these parts when making them so they used jobber parts. The quality of the parts that are being made for the carriers is so good I wouldn't think they would need a build date on them .

RichardT10829 · #46 28-03-11, 10:33

Lynn

Sorry mate its that Geordie slang weaning its way back into my texts... "Ringer" is a term used to describe a vehicle that has had its identity changed the example (especially here in Newcastle) would be a team would find a write off car they then take the vins glass and reg plates off, they then go out and steel a car identical to the write off that they have taken the plates from.... then swap the glass the plates and reg..... then sell it... or use it for a bank job etc etc.

Shaun has touched on this with the landrovers i can tell you its rife ! mainly folk who want to avoid road tax.....same with Mini's this goes back to my comments of Georges thread regarding repro data plates.

Phil i dont think anyone has taken offence at your comments and the points you raised are certainly valid ones... as it has been stated perhaps another thread on this very subject would be best. Once again though Ben great work on the quality of the pintle mounts needless to say i will want a full set + machined (i want to be able to pop them straight onto my new armour)

Ben · #47 28-03-11, 11:13

I've just spoken with the machinist.

He wants £5 per casting to machine the holes and skim for thickness. that means a raw cast is £45 each and machined £50 each. i didn't think it's too bad a price to have the work done. there is a small hinge dowel that needs making but i'll include the drawings for this with the pintles for the folks buying them.

If anybody wants to trade parts for castings i'm open to offers, please pm me.

Thanks

Ben

ajmac · #48 28-03-11, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

or is it "built from scratch"

Not quite from scratch Lynn

There will be more original wartime parts than can be found in most airworthy WW2 aircraft....or having said that, more than all the 'original' vintage racing cars in Europe. I could have left those wrecks in the scrapyard, or brought a rare vehicle back to life and not be forgotten (there are NO running Loyds in the UK), I chose the latter, but I really do see the point of view regarding originality.
The loyd is an odd vehicle, even a good project today requires virtually all the hull replacing as they are only 2mm thick, the drivers floor rots both itself and the lower chassis rail away by design. As far as I know every restored Loyd in Europe has been made up from at LEAST two wrecks! Except Pauls that is

carrierbarry · #49 29-03-11, 01:33

Just to be clear once you've got your new/old pintle mount bolted to your carrier and it looks wonderful.
How do you attach the Bren Gun?

Lynn Eades · #50 29-03-11, 06:33

You then need one of these.

RichardT10829 · #51 29-03-11, 10:35

or a pogo stick har har har...... Kevin made a fantastic repro pintle pole for his carrier absolutely cock on it was....cant remember who made it for him, i think it was a mate of his

Lynn Eades · #52 29-03-11, 11:17

You mean this.

RichardT10829 · #53 29-03-11, 15:50

Corr ! you clearly have all the toys Lynn

but yes that is the bad boy right there

Ben · #54 01-04-11, 21:25

Right chaps, today I ordered the first batch of castings, those who have expressed an interest can expect them in around two weeks give or take.

I also ordered some of the cable covers, fuel tank drains and fuel tank vents. I can post pictures when they arrive but anyone wanting them just needs to ask.

Thanks to those who have ordered castings, without the interest from enough people we wouldn't have been able to get them made.

Ben

eddy8men · #55 01-04-11, 23:01

you were doing us all a favour mate.
i'm doing oil coolers and the flexi pipes that go from the engine to the fixed pipes for anyone that needs them

eddy

Nigel Watson · #56 05-04-11, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben

I picked up the first cast today, they look good. the one shown is in its raw state as recieved from the foundry. I also picked up the front armour light cable cover.

If anyone wants any of these parts just let me know and i can get them made in the first batch.

Thanks

Ben

Hi Ben can you put me down for two please complete with arms. Thanks
Nigel

super dave · #57 06-04-11, 01:16

Would also to thank Ben for a great job he is doing with the ability to get these parts made for us so we can complete our projects

Dave

Philliphastings · #58 06-04-11, 04:16

Thanks again Ben and what a fine example of international co-operation this has proven to be. Should be more of it I say...

Cheers

Phill

Ben · #59 09-05-11, 20:32

I have the first batch of parts from the foundry, I hope to pick the balance up later this week. Once I've got them all I'll take them to get machined !!!! I'll update all those who have ordered pintles with delivery details once they're done, not long now!!

Also I picked up the fuel tank vent castings, drain casting, both in brass and the cable covers in steel. anybody wanting these please contact me via PM.
The drain and cable cover are £8 each the vents are £6 each as raw castings. The drain has part number TL2823 and the manufacturer JT&S (who's this) The vent is marked TL 3330. They work out well, my new tank using these parts should be ready in a few days, I'll post pictures once it gets here.

Thank you all for those who helped keep the cost down by placing an order. with some luck I hope to have the pick axe head mounting block from the rear tool plate soon. If you think you want one let me know.

Cheers

Ben

RichardT10829 · #60 09-05-11, 23:31

Well done Ben....