cant believe this post... im looking for an iltis

T19 · #1 25-02-11, 03:40

yeah while in i hated it, but i would love to have one now i am retired.. a cougar is just not going to fit in the garage

So anyone know where a reasonable one/ that amb would have been a nice catch... the ones on kijiji are over priced

chris vickery · #2 26-02-11, 22:19

When you consider that Ilti were going around $1200 to 1800 a couple years ago at auction, I must agree that todays Kijiji prcies are somewhat inflated...

Marc Montgomery · #3 02-03-11, 02:56

I cant say the prices are out of line at all. They are unique jeeps. If the americans had used them, these Cdn jeeps would have all been sold out of Canada long ago at these prices.

sadly many people have bought the few remaining examples for use as bushwackers, or are otherwise not treating them as heritage vehicles. Lots of examples of this on youtube

I have no firm number but Im guessing about 500-700 (??)were released across Canada and of that number maybe half will soon be wrecked.. Of course people can do what they want with them, but it does seem a shame when there are so few of them, they do represent Cdn military and Cdn automotive history, and if one wants to bash around the bush, there are many more common and cheap alternatives..

KrisHamilton · #4 05-03-11, 21:26

i dont understand how Canada ever went with a jeep from Germany!

rob love · #5 05-03-11, 22:25

Pretty much all the vehicles after the MLVW were of european descent. The Iltis, the LSVW (Iveco), the HLVW (Steyr) and then the G wagon all replaced North American type cehicles with varying degrees of success. The armoured AHSVS (Mercedes armoured 10 ton) also replaced armoured North American built highway tractors in Afghanistan, and are looked at with envy from several different countries, the US included.

About the only real lemon in the bunch is perhaps the LSVW, which was chosen for the military, and not by the military.

The only real exception to his is the new MLVW replacement

Gordon Yeo · #6 05-03-11, 23:13

Given that the MUTT had too be replaced and Canada needed a light reconnaissance vehicle, how many choices of vehicles could they pick from. At that time the Goverment was trying to have military vehicles assembled in Canada. That would shorten the list of available choices, perhaps the Iltis was the "best" deal they could get.

rob love · #7 05-03-11, 23:58

Mutts were actually on the short list at the time. A later version had the CF choosing the best 600 Mutts, and replacing only the M38A1s. In the end, it went to all Iltis as we know.

The old MLVW bulletins covered a lot of the Iltis procurement stages. I have most of the set downstairs. Interesting reading.

KrisHamilton · #8 06-03-11, 01:41

ok given that there are not many of the iltis jeeps floating around, i still think its a little ridiculous if the price one day sky rockets into vintage land rover prices , which i see happening

Marc Montgomery · #9 23-03-11, 15:52

re Iltis prices, notice two M38a1s currently on the net apparently a Cdn 2 and a Cdn 3 (listed as a 1975 model?!) unrestored but appear from the photos to be in good shape
listed @ 5600 $ and @ 7500 $

reference comparison to Iltis prices

chris vickery · #10 24-03-11, 00:52

Kris, I never see the price of Iltis skyrocketting as you say...
Yes there are fewer of them around than the comparative M38A1 series jeeps.

Another point is that an Iltis is not a Jeep, nor should it be referred to as one. Collectors should be knowledgeable enough to realize a difference from the ideology of the general public and their perception that every small 4 wheeled mv is a Jeep...

Another thing that I must point out is this; rarity does not equal value in all cases. While rarity does factor into the value equation, collectability and condition actually plays a bigger part.

If I may illustrate this with an example;
An old baseball card that is very rare because the player was a no-name who never went anywhere in the League and is in tattered and torn condition is almost worthless. Why?
1) who was this guy and what did he do?
2) does anyone care?
3) how many were made?
4) the condition is terrible
5) has a price precident been set on like examples?

I would consider the old AMC Pacer to be relatively "rare" as well but don't see too many around, let alone be highly sought after by car collectors either...

rob love · #11 24-03-11, 04:04

Conversly, the most mass produced Jeep (MB/GPW) usually command the higher end of the Jeep world prices.

Supply and demand: you have to have both. And generally, demand on mil vehs ties in to their roles in history.

Bob Carriere · #12 29-03-11, 03:30

....and you think Iltis-sisses are expensive...

Nice looking Jeep...

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehi...AdIdZ270572483

Bob

Marc Montgomery · #13 29-03-11, 12:51

wow
it seems all prices are up for good condition jeeps.. Iltis i do not think are overpriced.
(although Id be careful buying one that may still `look`ok but which has been owned by young offroaders.)

However, Im not sure why, i dont see this market as increasing. Whenever theres a gathering of MV collectors, how many guys under 50 do you see? how many under 40?
My guess is the average age in Canada is around the late 50`s

seems to me for every 2-4 collectors who leaves the hobby, only one new one comes in.
my impression is that more sales go to people with existing collections, than newcomers coming in to continue the hobby.

I dunno, merely an impression.. what are other peoples thoughts?

chris vickery · #14 29-03-11, 13:35

Marc, this is a tough one. When I started in the MV hobby around 15 years ago, I was one of the youngest guys into it. I was around 25 at the time.
There were not too many guys my age for sure and it seemed to me most were my fathers age or older.
Over the past few years we have seen a few more younger folks come in.
I think a lot of it comes down to money more than anything. I think it is relative to one's status in life and how much spare change you have. Most younger guys don't have it. I was fortunate enough at the time to have had a really great job, live at home and had few bills and few responsibilities.
It is like the muscle car revolution... back in the day every young guy had one and the price point wasn't bad. Over the years these same baby boomers are wanting to get back in touch with their youth and supply and demand has caused a great increase in prices of 1960's and 70's muscle cars...
As far as sales from collector to collector, at least the goodies are staying put and are appreciated by the right people. Museums are the last place to put them and young guys who want to modify them are not the way to go neither...

Scott Bentley · #15 29-03-11, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

However, Im not sure why, i dont see this market as increasing. Whenever theres a gathering of MV collectors, how many guys under 50 do you see? how many under 40?
My guess is the average age in Canada is around the late 50`s

seems to me for every 2-4 collectors who leaves the hobby, only one new one comes in.
my impression is that more sales go to people with existing collections, than newcomers coming in to continue the hobby.

I dunno, merely an impression.. what are other peoples thoughts?

Deleted...

Probably a bit too harsh towards a single Organization, and for that I appologise.

Phil Waterman · #16 29-03-11, 19:17

Hi Chris and Scotty

You both are bring up a problem in the MV collectors hobby, and in many other parts of the antique vehicle hobby. I got into antique cars before I had a drivers licenses 1965, which was fairly common with the other guys my age. Our fathers I think bought us the old Model As and 34 Fords in complete but run down condition (did not run) I think as a way of keeping us busy and making us appreciate the car when we got them running. This doesn't seem to happen much anymore, gone pretty much along with the shade tree mechanic.

When I got into military vehicles in 1978 majority of the club was the same age give or take a few years, now the majority of the club is still my age. So most of us are smart enough to reach out to the young new member we need them to keep the club going.

Hagerty Insurance Company has a pretty good newsletter and website and they commonly have articles about the issue of the aging of the collectors. http://www.hagerty.com/ They of course have a vested interest in keeping new people coming into the hobby.

Cheers Phil

Bob Carriere · #17 30-03-11, 04:46

Military Vehicle Magazine posted a recent survey results on the average age of military vehicles collectors/hobbist ........

....would you believe the average age was 61/62 ...... that implies some...probably a 1/3 are in the 70 + and may have had first hand wartime experience with their vehicles.....

A similar survey in a Hot Rod magazine had the same aging results...... in fact, if it was not for creative minds who now allow "Soya sauce" or rice burners at hot rod shows the gate fees would be so low as to kill major events.....

It's really very basic demographics.... the "Baby Boomers" are getting older...

Anyone for an OD Green Honda...?

Bob C

Bob

Marc Montgomery · #18 06-04-11, 01:40

stewart brings up a good point.. the original auction price is about half of the total price it took to get them licenced. So the first owners were looking at more or less $4K for a licensed runner

cheers
monty
84 Bombardier standard Iltis
m-100, m-101 1/4t trailers
1940? volksemfaenger (for sale)
1994 very hi miles, rusty, cracked w/s Villager van
2005 mountain bike
1983 21ft bowrider V6
14 ft aluminium boat/ 6hp johnson
18yr old cat