T-16 S/N 5399 T.D. 97377 Restoration

[Nigel Watson]

Too much barley water then David?!!!

[hrpearce]

You are all right depending on the surfaces you drive on as well, but where there is a diff involved you are never going to get perfect power division. We had a small John Deer crawler that didn't have a diff just clutches to disengage an axel for turning and because the earth isn't perfectly smooth you had to make regular corrections to the steering.

[horsa]

Spent some time messing around with the temperature senders over the weekend. Toying with the idea of having two regular senders with one in each head. As opposed to one sender in one head and the cut-out switch unit in the other head. Wiring would visually appear to be the same but there would be a second wire inside the conduit back to the instrument panel. The two sending unit wires would be connected to a toggle switch hidden inside the instrument panel and then the selected position would continue to the temperature gauge.

This would allow one gauge to appear correct and still be able to check the true temperature on each side of the engine individually. Essentially the same way that there is one fuel gauge with a selector switch that gets the reading from each of the fuel tanks individually. Except the selector would be hidden in this case since it wouldn't be correct.

By original design, the temperature gauge only reads the left side of the engine. But if the right side gets to a pre-determined temperature, a switch opens and kills power to the temperature gauge which causes it to peg out. On researching this, two versions of the switch were produced. One that opens at 195 +/- 5 degrees and the other closer to 220 +/- 5 degrees. I'd rather know the real temperature if possible as opposed to having the gauge getting effectively disabled before I am really at a true overheated state. The gauge maxes out at 240 degrees. Still haven’t made this change as I’m experimenting with the senders, voltage reducers at the gauge, and the gauge itself since I don’t get an accurate reading when comparing it to a modern gauge with its own probe inside one of the other ports on the right side head.

Shot attached shows a temperature probe that I'd placed on my tool locker while working on the carrier the day. My tools seemed to be pretty hot before having worked on the engine so I wanted to see what the probe would indicate. Was surprised it was showing 150F at 2pm since I hadn't been running the engine yet and it was yet to become truly hot outside.

[horsa]

After seeing some of the recent tool discussions, I was curious about what other carrier owners had and used for working with their vehicles compared to the wartime tool issues.

Shot attached are modern track jacks. The one I prefer is the smaller and lighter type that is cranked with a large wrench in the center to tighten or loosen the tracks. The wartime originals are rare lever operated types and I don't know if I would want to use one since the modern pattern are safer and certainly cheaper in the event that something broke.

[andrew honychurch]

Wow, thats superb. What a collection, I would dearly love that . Tell me about the strange shaped wooden block, whats it for? Also, the item referred to as the brake rod adjusting gauge that I can find no operational reference to, what and where does it go?

[Ron Pier]

Andrew I think the wooden block you refer to is for the bottle jack to sit in. I'd really like to get one of those jacks and block for my carrier tool kit.

Ron

[horsa]

Yep, Ron is correct in that the wooden block is to stabilize the bottle jack. Added a low res copy of the page from the manual showing part of the tool layout since it has some references. Item K is also used with the jack. The tapered end goes into the pipe hole where the bogie spring suspension assembly mounts. And the part that protrudes is the jack mounting point for raising the carrier during track repairs in the field.

So far nobody has been able to tell us what the brake tool B was used for. It seems to be a guide for lining parts and bolts up based on the holes on each side.

The open-ended wrench I'd asked about, along with what maker provided T-16 hand tools during the war, is item AR. This should be a 3/16 x 1/4 size wrench in the USA standard pattern.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by horsa

Spent some time messing around with the temperature senders over the weekend. Toying with the idea of having two regular senders with one in each head. As opposed to one sender in one head and the cut-out switch unit in the other head. Wiring would visually appear to be the same but there would be a second wire inside the conduit back to the instrument panel. The two sending unit wires would be connected to a toggle switch hidden inside the instrument panel and then the selected position would continue to the temperature gauge.

This would allow one gauge to appear correct and still be able to check the true temperature on each side of the engine individually. Essentially the same way that there is one fuel gauge with a selector switch that gets the reading from each of the fuel tanks individually. Except the selector would be hidden in this case since it wouldn't be correct.

By original design, the temperature gauge only reads the left side of the engine. But if the right side gets to a pre-determined temperature, a switch opens and kills power to the temperature gauge which causes it to peg out. On researching this, two versions of the switch were produced. One that opens at 195 +/- 5 degrees and the other closer to 220 +/- 5 degrees. I'd rather know the real temperature if possible as opposed to having the gauge getting effectively disabled before I am really at a true overheated state. The gauge maxes out at 240 degrees. Still haven’t made this change as I’m experimenting with the senders, voltage reducers at the gauge, and the gauge itself since I don’t get an accurate reading when comparing it to a modern gauge with its own probe inside one of the other ports on the right side head.

Shot attached shows a temperature probe that I'd placed on my tool locker while working on the carrier the day. My tools seemed to be pretty hot before having worked on the engine so I wanted to see what the probe would indicate. Was surprised it was showing 150F at 2pm since I hadn't been running the engine yet and it was yet to become truly hot outside.

+

Dave
To calibrate that Cooper Thermometer,which is a good one, place probe in can of boiling water..and read..it should read 212F..if not hold dial with one hand so it won't turn,and with a little wrench..about 5/16th ..turn the nut on the back where the probe meets the dial..
That will adjust the dial hand to 212F ..

I am a refrigeration mechanic and with all the fancy thermometers now a days .I still like that Cooper one..I have a few of them kicking around..
rugged and accurate and adjustable..
Good deal.

[horsa]

Hey Alex,

The reading on that gauge was correct for being laid out in the direct sun. Our offical temps this past weekend which are measured in the shade were 112F. The metal on the carriers, and on hand tools, really soak in the heat if left out in the sun very long.

[horsa]

Shot of the British Towed 4.2-Inch Mortar after setting it up for firing this past weekend. The manuals officially refer to it as a Mobile Base Plate for the 4.2-Inch Mortar and Mounting but what do they know...

This fires the 30-pound bombs that were transported in the cardboard carriers stored in the bins over the tracks on the T-16 (message # 46 in this thread on page two for reference).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HD_-b3FM3I

Short video linked above shows one of the bombs being fired at a 70 degree angle into a 15-20 mph gusting wind. We did this in conjunction with light launching charges to keep the bombs in a 350-400 yard impact range for easier recovery. The smoke coming from the bomb's nose in the video is to help track the shots and has nothing to do with the bomb firing in case it appears that I'm walking with a lit fuze. The bombs are actually launched with a cartridge in the tail unit in conjunction with a firing pin in the bottom of the mortar barrel which initiates once the bomb drops to the end.

[eddy8men]

great video and it's good to see one of these old war machines in action again

rick

[andrew honychurch]

thats awsome David. really cool . All I can say is "only in America"! we would be hunted down, and arrested and the key would be thrown away if we ever tried that in the UK. I love it. The old boy that used to own my Daimler Armoured Car once fired it with a blank loaded 2 pdr, and an hour later the Superintendant of the local police arrived and gave the old soldier a bit of lecture which resulted in him taking the breech block off and its never seen the light of day since. Although he still has it!!

[Ron Pier]

Andrew! You mean you bought an armoured car with the breech block missing? You were seen off:
The breech block on my 2 pounder field gun was got at with a cutting torch on the firing surface for the deac certificate. But at least it still looks the part. As you say....."Only in America"

Ron

[shaun]

well my DAC is on my RFD, and we had a real blast with it at the Victory show, we got off 10 rounds of blank through the 2pdr - so its not "only in America". OK now back to carriers ! he he he he

[horsa]

We are pretty fortunate here in the USA to still be able to own live machine guns, mortars and artillery pieces. Anti-gun organizations are always trying to change this though and they also have a dislike of armoured vehicles being privately owned.

It’s nice to be able to restore these weapons related items while we can though. They go with the carriers and help to round out the presentation while preserving the history. Course like the carriers, there are few lightweight parts. Makes it a real challenge when it comes time to cleaning it after a weekend of live firing.

[horsa]

I'm always on the lookout for strategic spare parts for the carrier. Recently came across what I believe to be replacement axle shafts for the front idler wheel brackets. I've not found any reference to them being an individual part in the T-16 manuals but they look exactly the same as what I have on my carrier.

These are still in the wartime packing wax for the most part. Wondering if anyone has ever seen something like this for the T-16 or other variations within the Universal Carrier family of vehicles since it was probably interchangeable.

[Ben]

Yes they look like spare shafts for the front idler mount. I had to press one out and replace with a better one. Mine had a part number on the larger inboard end. Handy spares but they can be a job to press in/out.

Ben

[andrew honychurch]

hi David, and Ben. Seasons Greetings to you both and best wishes for 2012. I had bto say that I have not seen these parts around but I would imagine that they are serviceable items. It would seem a waste to throw away the whole front idler if there was a fault on the shaft. Short of a collision though I cannot think of a reason that you will need one!! Lets hope there are no collisions.

[horsa]

Appreciate the confirmation that they are indeed front idler axles. Hopefully I'll never need them which is what makes them strategic spare parts. I've also got a spare complete bogie suspension assembly stashed away. But it was a rusted take-off item.

Figure they aren't making parts anymore and eventually all the spares will dry up. One accident could turn a decent running vehicle into a flower pot. Such was the case with our M29C Weasel when my brother was driving it like it was a new-made 4 wheeler down on some ranch property in south Texas in and out of ditches at high speed. He had a total separation of all four track bands on one side and wound up dug into the dirt thirty feet ahead of the thrown track. Took me two years to rebuild the track (actually did both sides) and it was only possible because I had spares. There are more Weasels rotting away for lack of tracks than there are running Weasels.

I don't let my brother anywhere near my jeep or carrier

Hope your M20 project is winding down Andrew. I'm getting anxious to get started on mine again now that its all torn down. Dismounted the tyres by hand over this past weekend so the rims would be ready when I decide to take everything to the sand blaster. I need to be patient though and wait out the cold weather since I do my painting in the back yard.

[horsa]

Some Carrier Candy made from Unobtanium that I was recently able to import from OZ where it has sat for several years waiting for unrelated issues to be resolved there.



One of the items is a Bren mount with cradle. The other is heavy Australian mount used on their carriers up front for a Vickers or Bren. The Vickers cradle would simply drop in as shown in one of the attached photos. The Bren could be used with the cradle pictured with the other mount but it would have had a larger lower section that fit into the mount. The cradle shown with the Bren has the same lower section as found on the pogo sticks.

Now the dilemma of what to do with them. Add one or both to my carrier which wouldn't be strictly correct. Or cave in to the wishes of the wife and kids. Kids want the Vickers to be mounted in the rear cargo area on the M29C Weasel and the wife wants the Bren for her '32 Citroen that is used by her FFI maquis group. Neither of these is strictly correct either so I've told them I might sell them and buy more firearms and beer

[Marc van Aalderen]

How many cans of beer do you want for the Vickers parts? I am interested to buy/swap.

Cheers,

[horsa]

Hey Marc,

The wife likes Amstel as she got hooked on it when we were in the NL jumping with Pathfinder. For some reason Amstel Light is what all the stores import over here though and its not anything like what we were getting on tap. Sent you a PM though so check your folder in case the eMail notification fails.

Also send PMs to all the other people answering various questions asked about the T-16, mounts, etc.

[ozm29c]

Originally Posted by horsa

Some Carrier Candy made from Unobtanium that I was recently able to import from OZ where it has sat for several years waiting for unrelated issues to be resolved there.



One of the items is a Bren mount with cradle. The other is heavy Australian mount used on their carriers up front for a Vickers or Bren. The Vickers cradle would simply drop in as shown in one of the attached photos. The Bren could be used with the cradle pictured with the other mount but it would have had a larger lower section that fit into the mount. The cradle shown with the Bren has the same lower section as found on the pogo sticks.

Now the dilemma of what to do with them. Add one or both to my carrier which wouldn't be strictly correct. Or cave in to the wishes of the wife and kids. Kids want the Vickers to be mounted in the rear cargo area on the M29C Weasel and the wife wants the Bren for her '32 Citroen that is used by her FFI maquis group. Neither of these is strictly correct either so I've told them I might sell them and buy more firearms and beer

G'day David,
I know very little about machine guns (even after 20 years in the Navy ) but you mentioned fitting a machine gun to your weasel. I have attached a photo of a machine gun fitted to an M29C in British service. Perhaps this would help you keep your weasel "Original".
Cheers
John W.

[Lynn Eades]

It looks like a Vickers K gun to me.

[horsa]

I agree Lynn, it's a Vickers GO K Gun. Was just studying the shot and figure it must be Walcheren based on the types of vehicles present and the British commandos participated in that landing which probably accounts for the K Gun.

Very cool photo so thanks for posting it John. I haven't seen all that many photographs of the Weasel in British service even though I've read lots of accounts of units having them.

Shots attached of our "Pickle Boat" with my father ratting around in the mud for fun a few years ago since we got onto the M29C Weasel topic. It isn't in British markings since we had it at a V-J event sponsored by the Nimitz museum a couple of months prior to that. Figured it was more appropriate to be in USMC type markings even though it doesn't have the floatation tanks bolted up.

[ozm29c]

Hello again David,
I don't want to highjack your thread but attached are some more photos of weasels in British service.
Cheers
John W.

[ozm29c]

And some more photos. I must acknowledge Leo Verhagen for these photos.

[Philliphastings]

Lol unobtainium ! -t's about the only susbstance that resists our local very corrosive salt lake infested country out my way. Anything made of Iron or steel degrades to the consistency of cornflakes but brass remains like new...

Cheers

Phill

[horsa]

Hey Phill, The Brass/Bronze WWII era stuff down your way is always scarce due to the postwar salvage efforts. I've seen a lot of other items lacking it where someone robbed the part for melting down. This mount must have been hidden pretty well to stay in its proper form.

Been having a sideline discussion on the upper Bren mounting part with some other guys and will take closer shots and get measurements uploaded later today of that item.

And thanks again John for the other Weasel shots. A lot of British wartime unit histories refer to them Universal Carriers with continuous tracks or lightweight UCs. Makes it tough sometimes to determine what units used various types of vehicles including the T-16s since they are also UCs.

[horsa]

Hope these help. All parts are made of steel which was welded together. The only markings are on the adjustment lever and include a code and 1942 date.