Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[Private_collector]

Tyres bought


Wheels blasted & etch primed


Lower engine hatch blasted & repaired


Grille blasted, following previous reworking of mesh.

[Private_collector]

Spent 60min masking my trailer, ready to paint insides of wheel halves.

Wanted to do the insides first to test paint spraying technique and finish. Learnt many years ago, you always do the bits you don't see first when spraying in 'unfamiliar' territory.

Lovelly shiny finish isn't it? Pity it's bloody well meant to be almost flat finish!!!

I have had the same problem that Lloyd McCarthy had encountered with his Cab 12, Gun Tractor. Being that the flattening base for mixing with gloss paint does not provide much flattening when used at specified strength of 5%. Before I attempt the outside of the wheels, I will ring Lloyd for his final strength of base. His truck looked sooo good, and has the precise look I want. Lloyd is a perfectionist.

Fellow MLU'er, Andy Cusworth dropped by this afternoon, while in the area for a local historical Steam Rally. He helped me to get the final two wheel nuts loose and the wheels will be coming off in near future while axles are worked on. Rear first. I never had any hope of removing the stuck nuts before today, because only last night did I consider the possibility of studs being replaced with wrong thread direction. I checked today......and yep......thats whats been done, so I'm very glad I didn't force the issue and wind up with busted threads. If I end up using this rear axle (I have another, good one) I will write to Dirk at LWD and have him send replacements.

I couldn't resist threading the 'danger' nuts on, just to admire the two colors together!


Has anyone realised what color the green I chose is?

The answer is in one of the photos ;-)

[Andy Cusworth]

Tony,

I have to say your work is second to none, the parts you have done look great mate !
and no i can't find the bloody paint name anywhere

or is it called Shed Green ????

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Tony - I hope you are not going to stay with that green as the instrument panel I am doing for you will be finished in good old Khaki Green No.3.

Bob

[Private_collector]

That's the color I will be using. It is actually a bit darker in real life. Also, my local automotive paint shop has no vintage military formulae and expressed no interest in rectifying the issue. They will create from formula containing their tinters (Protec variety) if formula is supplied to them. This color is a standard mix.

Why did you expect Khaki Green 3?

I chose this color because its a green which I find appealing and it is easily obtained in a number of forms. It is a standard colorbond color which can be picked up from any hardware or paint store, and is available pre-made in acrylic & enamel. I can simply buy a spray can if needing to touch-up anywhere other than on main panels.

Some restorers choose to debate and argue which color is the 'right' one for their vehicles, and if historical accuracy is the desire, that debate is certainly warranted, but that particular aspect of the build does not interest me. It's the physical quality that I will be concentrating on. Color is my choice. After all, If there is a 'right' color for any particular type of vehicle or theatre, then there must be an awful lot of paint colors seen that are wrong.

You can supply the dash in primer if you wish, or spray with Cottage Green Colorbond color, from local paint shop or hardware. Acrylic preferred as I can flatten easily later without causing damage. It's your call!

[Keith Webb]

Has anyone realised what color the green I chose is?

The answer is in one of the photos ;-)

Is this the answer to the cryptic clue Tony?

[colin jones]

His truck, his choice.
Colin.

[colin jones]

I might just add! I have built many a shed with rivergum and caulfield green trim. Thats what we call it in Adelaide.
Colin.

[Private_collector]

As Captain Mainwaring would say..............ahhh, I was wondering who'd be first to spot that.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hey guys - I am not trying to impose any colours on anybody. I just use KG3 as it is correct for the era and my local Protec has the formula. As for your panel it makes my life more simple. I will finish it off with several coats of good primer and leave the instruments out so it is easy for you to final coat it.

Bob

[Private_collector]

Thanks very much, I appreciate that. Getting income tax done on Thursday, so will be cashed up in coming week or two.

I didn't intend any offence or disrespect with the reply to your post.

I don't suppose you have a copy of the KG3 formula for Protec you can send me??

If I can get a satisfactory undertaking from the paint shop staff, or find an alternative shop in the next town (40min from my place) I might rethink the decision if ongoing supplies will be consistently available & accurate in tint. Still like the idea of being able to take a can off the shelf and use without mucking around.

I always try to plan ahead and head off potential problems where possible. The local paint shop (only one in town with auto paint) don't give me good vibes as to their skill/ability or desire to assist.

I was quite suprised how easy the Protec was to apply. Apparently this is one of it's known benefits. Last time I painted a vehicle, it was in a now defunct (I have been told) paint brand called Spies Hecker. Protec sprayed well, with good buildup and quick coverage. I contacted Protec customer service today and will try flattening base at 10-15% next time.

Bad dental pain tonight. Had 1x extraction at 1730hrs & anaestetic now worn off. I left my Tramal pain tablets at the office too. I wonder if the scarf with hot water bottle treatment, as seen in old movies, really works. Ask me tomorrow.

Don't forget to floss, people.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Tony - a bit of research shows that

Painters Pit Stop
Gympie
50 Duke Street Gympie, 4570
Phone: (07) 5482 9011

is an outlet/distributor for Protec Paints. I cannot see why Protec here, Head Office, could not forward the formula to them. If you like make some enquiries with them and we'll see what we can do. There are several Protec outlets in Qld and are easy to find with Google. You would be able to identify who is close to you. If it is too hard I could always get it made up here and send to you. I always use a satin finish and they do all the flattening.

Bob

[Andy Cusworth]

Hey Tony,

just clicked why shed green ..... no worries with the overspray !

I think the problems with the some of the Automotive paint is that its designed to be high gloss shine, my local suppplier recommended with the gloss enamel I use to mix 1lt paint to 20% flattener to 20% thinners based on 3 coats and final coat can be 25%... his spec sheets say up to 50% flattener but he said this is in the borderline with it turning out milky.
Going to spray a door first and judge the results but mine is not an original Army replica ans the Fire Brigade demilitarised her so i'm restoring as a 2nd life timber truck type.

Bob is right that if you want army khaki get the right paint so you know you get the shade and finish you want as there is so many out there and plenty of head scratching material !

Got the brackets off the Bumper and the curve is pretty even, so just going to attempt to correct the twist and see how I go from there, heatwise as i dont have acetylene kit is to run a bead of weld on inside of bumper on a line where i need to apply pressure to bend her back to true whilst the weld area is still red hot, will let you know how I go but i have used this before on steel bumpers and it has worked well

[Phil Waterman]

One thing I've learned in painting flat OD is to use a base coat over the primer that is full gloss with hardener, then paint the top coat with with the flattener reason being the flattener is basically like (or is) chalk which will let some moisture enter the paint and get down to the primer and then to the metal. Putting down a full gloss coat provides a good moisture barrier.

From playing around in the past I learned that about 20% flattener matches the original flatness pretty well particularly if you spray the top coat on the dry side, another reason for a good gloss coat as the first coat.

For those of us who don’t paint all the time another tip is practice, paint all the non critical stuff first like the underside of the body or the floor of the cargo bead, get your technique down than tackle the stuff that every one will see.

Cheers Phil

[Private_collector]

Thanks for the info on flat base. Your statements regarding gloss coats prior to use of base is absolutely spot on! Flat base & primer itself (acrylic worst of all) are suscepatible to moisture. I have only used flat base for trim or dash components in the past, and that was way back in the past.

I emailed Protec head office last night, and presently awaiting reply regarding having them supply paint mixed with base in it. As I posted earlier, the local paint shop were the ones who advised on initial base mixing ratio, and with that in mind they seem to be unfamiliar with the product.

Should know more tonight.

T

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Hi Tony - a bit of research shows that

Painters Pit Stop
Gympie
50 Duke Street Gympie, 4570
Phone: (07) 5482 9011

is an outlet/distributor for Protec Paints. I cannot see why Protec here, Head Office, could not forward the formula to them. If you like make some enquiries with them and we'll see what we can do. There are several Protec outlets in Qld and are easy to find with Google. You would be able to identify who is close to you. If it is too hard I could always get it made up here and send to you. I always use a satin finish and they do all the flattening.

Bob

I have now received 2 emails from Protec. The first asked what type of paint I had used, and while I thought this slightly odd to request, I complied and replied with same.

Second email was simply "kind regards" & the authors signature, with three attachments, each containing the MSDS for the individual products.

Since receiving this email, I have read & re-read my first contact asking if they held the formula for Khaki Green 3 in satin, and asking of they could supply it ready for use (I.E: flattening base added in an effective amount).

Despite careful scrutiny of my initial correspondence, I am stuffed if I can see ANYWHERE where I have asked for MSDS sheets. Bob, this is exactly the sort of poor attention to detail that I detest. It certainly does NOT inspire confidence to ask one question, and receive an answer completely estranged from the topic. This is precisely why I wanted to 'idiot proof' the paint purchase as much as I can and utilise my color, which is available in spray cans. Unfortunately, this does mean I will need to muck around adding base myself. I will send a third email to Protec, enlightening them to the initial question, and maybe I might get a sensible answer........maybe not!

Surely it's not too much to ask for a response to a simple question, without having to turn the whole thing into what I call a "trilogy in four parts"

On a slightly happier note, if anybody wants a copy of MSDS for Protec Autofleet 609, 609 hardener or R199 Paraglaze, I can send them to you.

[Mike K]

I downloaded Protecs data sheets . They make a 2 pack matt paint for the ADF vehicles and I asked them if they could mix up a certain green colour in that ADF flat finish . They replied NO , they only sell it in the current ADF colours listed .

They do have a good range of various paints . its worthwhile researching what they sell .

Mike

[Local Chap]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I downloaded Protecs data sheets . They make a 2 pack matt paint for the ADF vehicles and I asked them if they could mix up a certain green colour in that ADF flat finish . They replied NO , they only sell it in the current ADF colours listed .

They do have a good range of various paints . its worthwhile researching what they sell .

Mike

Protec's paint for the ADF cam colours is a premixed enamel, not 2 pack.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Tony - why are you trying to re-invent the wheel. I have dealt with Protec for the last ten years. I just go in, order the paint for which they have the formula and get it when it is ready. I have already intimated I could do that for you, it is a walk up start. This is what having contacts is all about. I have bought in excess of 150l of this colour plus all the other obscure colours I need for my instrument panel work. When buying the paint I also get them to supply a couple of spray cans for touch up work. Everything is done in the laboratory down here whereas your paint shop just would not have the capability to do what is required.

Your other problem is that you are relying on Emails. It is far better to talk to someone and give them my name. Then they just look on their database and bingo, this is what the guy requires.

Bob

[Private_collector]

Bob,

I'm glad your experience with Protec is satisfactory. Though I'm puzzled how expecting a reasonable A to a simple Q is "re-inventing the wheel". The only time I can be guaranteed a chance to correspond is in the evening, and that means emails. I like email, it means I have an exact copy of what was advised or discussed, for future reference. In this case it means I can send mail when I am able to do so & ensure they have all details needed or requested. Perhaps even a photo or two to illustrate a point. That suits me just fine, you can't use email as an excuse for bad service or poor attention to detail. Whether I get a sensible answer to email, well that's their call.

Its nice of you to offer to get involved. I do appreciate this, but the issue here is consistency of customer service. I really shouldn't need to name drop to get their attention. If I don't get the same service devotion as Bob Moseley would, they are not going to get my business. I would find it offensive if your name got assistance, I as a new customer cannot!

Protec may yet be able to help, pending reply to email I sent tonight. Otherwise I write them off as a bad joke. That would be a pity, because their product is quite acceptable and easy to spray. So are many other brands.

Buying paint is easy, or should be. And I will happily buy from Protec or someone else. I painted vintage & classic vehicles professionally for many years, and know how things should happen. The truly amusing thing is that I could walk into any medium to large auto repair/refinishing shop, with a color sample, and they could scan it and produce a formula, using a hand held paint scanner. Flattening base not whtistanding, of course.

I will get back to you via PM in next couple of days regarding whether the dash you are doing for me should be painted KG3 or just primed. On the off chance Protec don't impress, next time you go there, give them MY name & tell them they lost a customer. If they don't understand how.......maybe I could send this posting to them.......via email of course!

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Local Chap

Protec's paint for the ADF cam colours is a premixed enamel, not 2 pack.

They do actually do a 2 pack ADF system . It's called BARRIER PU 601 ...$70 for 4 litres and $30 for the hardener

The stuff your thinking of is 342 Camoflage enamel .

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Your other problem is that you are relying on Emails. It is far better to talk to someone and give them my name. Then they just look on their database and bingo, this is what the guy requires.

Bob

Absolutely agree . Emails with the ordinary staff people at a branch asking specific questions are a waste of time . The bozo at the computer doesn't have a clue what you want . You have to ring them or go to the counter to get results. Most businesses ignore emails from hobby type individuals as it's not worth their time responding .

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

They do actually do a 2 pack ADF system . It's called BARRIER PU 601 ...$70 for 4 litres and $30 for the hardener

The stuff your thinking of is 342 Camoflage enamel .

Mike,

Were you pleased with this product?

It might be a good option if it's matt & premixed. DAMN CHEAP TOO!!!
I don't give a rats who I get paint from, so long as its simple to obtain once source located. It was Protec head office I have been writing to. Local paint shop here mean well, but not much help & poorly motivated.

You are right or course regarding emails, so is Bob, though it shouldn't happen that way.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Tony - sorry you are having hassles with Protec, but I will let you sort that out. Below is the formula that I used for the colour for a timber paint. Depending on the base colour of the metal paint, I use Protec Equipment Enamel 304, the formula should be the same. I did not need to flatten it as it was for timber. The laboratory here does the metal paint flattening for me.

Khaki Green No. 3 Timbercote
• 4l yellow base
• B: 9Y, 20
• D: 1Y
• F: 34
• A: 1Y, 20
Paint code ex. Protec Paints

Khaki Green No.3 is B.S. 381-1939
Humbrol model paint code 30 should give you the colour match.

Your paint shop in Gympie should be able to get that right which just leaves you with the flattening problem, but I see there is plenty of good advice from our fellow MLUers. Just let me know if I can help you with anything.

Bob

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Mike,

Were you pleased with this product?

It might be a good option if it's matt & premixed. DAMN CHEAP TOO!!!
I don't give a rats who I get paint from, so long as its simple to obtain once source located. It was Protec head office I have been writing to. Local paint shop here mean well, but not much help & poorly motivated.

You are right or course regarding emails, so is Bob, though it shouldn't happen that way.

If you look at the current ADF vehicles , the camo colours are what Protec makes and sells . The green is too light for me . I wanted Deep bronze green from the BSC chart . But they won't tint it , you have to buy the stuff in the standard ADF green and tint it yourself . It's a polyurethane 2 pack enamel . It's supposedly scratch proof and very hard .

I haven't tried it yet myself, but yes, it is cheap .

You can download the data sheet from their web site ... and all their other paint data as well . www.protec.com.au

Mike

[Private_collector]

Bob,

Thanks for the formula information. Very good of you to obtain that for me, and your previous offer to arrange supply from down there, despite hardly knowing me, was a grand gesture. I'm a bit old fashioned when it comes to calling on others, particularly where on-going involvement would be needed on your part, or possibly so. I'm funny with regards to customer service too. Any business can provide good service when things are going well, but true colors show (no pun) when things get rough or some degree of effort is required. I should mention at this point, that the guy I have had replies from Protec, is actually a "technical representitive & trainer" not some raw recruit counter jockey.

You know, of the several sandblasting companies in Gympie, only one is actually proactive and accomodating to needs. Morgan Engineering is that Co. Their main business is heavy truck repair & engineering / fabrication. In theory they would be within their rights to decline the small stuff I have had them involved in, but they actually care & want to be a part of the restoration. I am always asked what progress has been made since last visit. Up to now thats not been much, but I expect that will change as of now.........I plan. They are a family run business and I never feel like i'm imposing, even though I probably am. Pleasure to deal with them or other businesses like them. Likewise, the truck tyre place I took the two 'stuck' tyres to for removal from wheels. The poor sods spent ~45min each to get them off. Told me they were hardest tyres to remove in a very long while. Despite that, they charged me very little, and didn't ban me from bringing them more in future. The boss did ask for a days notice so he could have a valium though. These businesses are in my little town & I really feel this does make a difference too. Sorry city folks!

These businesses, like yourself, will be offered credit space on display board I will make regarding the rebuild, once finished!

I will visit Painters Pit-stop tomorrow and take your formula information, no doubt something can be arranged that will be suitable. I got reply from Protec today, which certainly shows they (correction, the guy that got the message) are not interested in helping me. My question was 'do you have Khaki Green 3' & I also asked of color range for ADF.

Email reply contents as follows:

No
We do not have a formula for this colour
We also do not supply any 601 Army material without ADF approval

Kind Regards

He flattly (pun intended) denied knowledge of the formula/name. Oh well, he can stick his head up a dead bears bum!

Thanks again to you, Mike & others for your patience & advice,

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Tony - given your experiences with Protec I would have the same opinion of them as you have. However I personally will be taking this up with my contact as I find myself embarrased after recommending them to you.

I AM DISPLEASED.

Bob

[Private_collector]

Bob,

Don't let it ruin your relationship with Protec.

It's not worth damaging raport of a decade.

No need to be embarrased.

Your reputation can't be tarnished by something outside your control. That's common sense.

Mind you, in the wider view, I think common sense died a long time ago.
I know.............I went to the funeral!

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

They do actually do a 2 pack ADF system . It's called BARRIER PU 601 ...$70 for 4 litres and $30 for the hardener

The stuff your thinking of is 342 Camoflage enamel .

Mike,

I spent 90 min at the auto paint shop this morning/afternoon. The formula Bob supplied was apparently unable to be replicated in the Automotive 2 pack I wanted. This is the paint I used and was impressed with last weekend, when to insides of wheel halves were sprayed. In fact they said they didn't have a "yellow base" to start formula. Also, the mixing formula letter combination confused them, so no good with that, apparently. Couldn't get their head around the whole timber VS auto side of the process either.

If you read my recent postings here, you will recall Protec email responder stating they do NOT supply 601 without ADF approval. My local paint shop did not have ADF in 601, and couldn't find it in their database. They did feel it could be restricted, but will check for me. So TBA.

On the other hand, 342 Camoflage paint, enamel, is a standard pre mixed "lustreless" formula in three colors (they think). As fortune would have it, they actually had a 1L can in back room. This I have bought, in addition to a compatable hardener, effectively and literally turning this enamel into 2 Pack. The hardener is urethane! And NO FLATTENER NEEDED for mixing. I will study tech sheets tonight & trial this paint tomorrow, painting outside of the wheels. The insides will then be of darker color, which is regrettable, but being insides won't make a lick of difference, except I will know......and now you too.

Depending on whether I can deal with the color difference, I may even respray insides at later date. On the other hand, if the 342 is not satisfactory finish or quality, i will have wheels re-sandblasted and start from scratch. The enamel / 2 pack '342' paint will probably NOT allow recoating with another type of paint.

The 324 is considerably cheaper than 609 but is still around $45 a litre. At least they think so, couldn't actually find a price for this on the computer either, because it is used so rarely that they deleted it from sales files.

Tune in tomorrow for the next exciting episode of..........oh bugger it, even i'm bored with this now.......

[Andy Cusworth]

Hey Tony

this is like watching paint dry ...... very drab