General Bill Slims Truck / Caravan CMP

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Thanks for all the input. I am going to see if I can publish a repeat of my Vintage Roadscene magazine text here for you, relating to 6-wheel CMPs.

The chassis numbers that have been quoted save for the pilot lorry appear to be 1943 MODELS and may have been assembled as late as 1944. I know of just one Aussie C60X:

3866070143M ENGINE # 270 45,859 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED] SM-PE-211-16 SEPTEMBER 11 1945

So was PE-211-16 the last contract then?

I have been mulling over the possibility that there were no direct Australian orders for F60H lorries and that any that ended up in Aussieland were ex-Middle East deliveries. I have no evidence yet of any Census Numbers or Demands/Contracts for F60H chassis for the British forces but I have a list of Ford Demands that are not assigned to any known models. It would require a check of index cards at Bovington Tank Museum, if such is possible these days, to check unless someone with a F60H can find a number on a plate in the cab and/or a parts list with any British Demand numbers on it. May I ask if there is any record of F60H lorries in the AWM census books please?

[Mike Cecil]

Hi David,

The chassis numbers of the first 120 vehicles are a unique Australian number, stamped in Australia with the 'M' after the '8660' and before ther chassis sequence number, hence they commence at '1' and progress to '120'. They were dispatched in late 1942 or early 1943 and arrived progressively1943, so were no doubt manufactured in 1942. The model year numeral was not included in the chassis number, possibly a further indicator that they were stamped in Australia at the point of assembly.

I think the later deliveries have the 'M' at the end of the chassis number, ie the one you quote is 866070143M, and were Canadian assigned numbers to which was added the 'M' after arrival (at point of assembly). Can't check that chassis number just now, but can do so next week when I get back the office (I don't have MS Access on this computer)

The original pilot chassis issued to Australia in June 1942 has the chassis number 28660-10766, with no Australian assembly site indicator letter. It was actually delivered direct and assembled at the DAFVP workshop in Salmon Street, Port Melbourne, rather than the GMH assembly plant, and hence retained its Canadian number without the added 'M'.

I don't recognise the 'PE' prefix in relation to Australian contract demands, which were pretty much all 'CD-EXXXX', and don't know how it relates to the supply contracts, so can't help you there. But I will check the chassis number (see above).

Having scoured the Aust veh registers for many years, I'm yet to locate an F60H, but I'll be happy if someone has found an ARN on one that can direct me to a particular page to examine!! With over 100,000 vehicles, it's easy to overlook or miss details.

Mike C

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

That's what I love about MLU..you learn something more earch day!

Now, I have checked my database and I have details of CMPs and I have records of a few 'PE-' contracts...I wonder if it stands for Procurement Executive or similar? Perhaps a listing might be appropriate for further discussion?

The second point is that it seems that Melbourne always used the 'M' plant code but other plants sometimes did not apply their 'B', 'S' and 'P' codes...note I have it seems not yet seen an 'A' for Adelaide plant code yet! During the war and then post-war, it seems that Holden plants had their own interpretations about how vehicle serial numbers should be stamped, and also whether a plant code was to be stamped and where...after the model number of after the sequential number.

Thirdly, there is a variance it seems in Holden serial numbers! CKD chassis seem to have a Holden-allocated number that started with # 1; CKD chassis with a Canadian serial and plant code, and imported chassis with serial number and no plant code! I must post Aussie CMP details sometime for further discussion....

[Mike Cecil]

David,

'Adelaide' had two plants, neither of which are called the 'Adelaide' plant in the GMH War Record history, but Birkenhead and Beverley, with only the Birkenhead Plant involved in car and truck chassis assembly. Maybe that's why there are no 'A'-marked chassis? The Perth and Brisbane Plants were known by those names (and stamped 'P' and 'B') but the 'Sydney' plant where car and truck chassis were assembled was actually known as 'Pagewood Plant', but as we know, was marked with an 'S'. So, seemingly some inconsistencies.

REF the C60X chassis number you quoted earlier, 3866070143M. This was assembled as an RAAF 900 gallon refueller and delivered to the RAAF with the last batch in late 1945. I suspect it was one of several that were subsequently transferred to the Royal Australian Navy, but am yet to cross-check the engine numbers in an effort to confirm this.

REF 'PE': yes, interested to see a list/partial list to see if I can make any cross reference to what I have on contract data. As you say, we may all learn from it. Do you have any shipping information regarding deliveries from Canada to overseas?

Regards

Mike C

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

GM (Australia) Pty Ltd's first plant was in Marrickville, near Sydney. They then went on to have five plants and by 1928 were clerarly using letters for plant codes.

As regards Birkenhead, here's a little bit of history that I have:

In 1926, Holdens’ were called upon to body Morris’s Cowley models as well as the 12HP Austin. It appears that Holden had visited Morris when in the UK, as well as Vauxhalls: Holdens’ bodied Vauxhall chassis from at least 1925, after General Motors had acquired the English company. Holdens’ reacted to the constant improvements in designs by acquiring Whitlingstowe Engineering Limited located in Beverley, an adjoining Adelaide suburb to Woodville. This company acquisition enabled Holdens’ to produce drop-forged, heat-treated or machined components. Further upgrading of Woodville which totalled £460,000 with the new company purchase cost, saw the installation of heavy presses for cowl and door panel stamping and an increase of floor space at Woodville to 23 acres to allow production of up to 300 bodies per day. A further result was the removal of work and the Head Office from the original Adelaide city building to Woodville

I wonder if Beverley became a body plant in addition to Woodville?

The original GM (A) Plant addresses were (opened 1926-7)
City Road, Melbourne, Victoria
Carrington Rd, Marrickville, Sydney, New South Wales..opened October 1926
Wickham Street, Valley, Brisbane, Queensland
Corner Rann & Birkenhead Streets, Birkenhead, Adelaide, South Australia
Corner Buckland & Victoria Streets, Cottelsoe Beach, Perth, Western Australia

Holden’s Motor Body Builders Ltd., also had their own interstate operations (assembly and repairs) - Woodville, South Australia was their main body building plant and their assembly and repair plants were located at:

Cnr Ferrars and Munro Streets, South Melbourne
Anderson Street, Valley, Brisbane
Dowling Street (off William Street), Sydney
In 1922 Holden’s Limited also had a similar plant at King William Street, Adelaide.

GM (A) and Holdens as you know to form General Motors-Holden's Pty Ltd and their five plants were officially 'Adelaide'. 'Brisbane'. 'Melbourne' and 'Sydney'. Plus the Woodville body plant.

I stand corrected on any history though!

I may well have data on shipments overseas as at 1945...I shall have a look when I can!

I have data on 'Shops' C60X supplies from GM of Canada though (to 31 March 1944):
1942 418
1943 809
1944 316

Total shipments to Australia: 25,352

Total F60H production: 4,123
Total C60X production: 2,710


I'll have a look when I can then for you!