front armour steering box rivets

RichardT10829 · #1 11-12-11, 12:28

just been looking at some of Shauns pics of his front armour and his does not seem to have two rivets above the steering box to hold it on.... i have then gone through loads of carrier pics to find some carriers have the extra two rivets and some dont ? anyone any idea's ? i know shauns armour is original so its correct... just before i weld up the two holes i drilled !

if you look inside the carrier at the frame rail which runs along the top of the steering box armour, its there... they are there on Mk2's but not on all mk1's wonder if my steering box came from a mk2 ?

Cheers

Richie

kevin powles · #2 11-12-11, 16:10

Hi Rich, That steering box I gave you is from a Mk2 British Carrier, I would leave the holes in as they are used for mounting the drivers steering guide vane on later Mk1's (Possibly used on Mk2's??).

The pic is a canadian 1943 mortar carrier.

kev.

Ben · #3 11-12-11, 16:19

I think it's a production point, all the early pictures I've seen don't have the holes but the later models do!

I guess the only way of knowing for sure is to find an original vehicle as close to yours in the production line and see what that has.

I have assumed you mean the holes that fix the steering box armour to the vertical drivers armour not the ones Kevin mentions in the top of the steering box armour, either way I'd assume that both sets of holes came in at a similar time as earlier carriers don't have either sets but later ones do......

Kevin or Ricks might be a good guide as both, I think are quite early Canadian ones.

Ben

kevin powles · #4 11-12-11, 16:19

AHHH Rich, just realised you are talking about the two holes on the front drivers armour plate, I think they are counter sunk rivets in the two holes as the rivet head needs to clear the vision slot sliding armour glass when fully down. I will check on a carrier but i think you will find the rivet heads on the inside on the angle iron aligned with those two holes.

kev

Ben · #5 11-12-11, 16:21

Or Kevins right and they can't be seen as they're countersunk :-)

Ben · #6 11-12-11, 16:47

I've just checked, there are on the early carriers but only visible on the inside. This suggest Kevin was right and they're countersunk holes.

Perhaps the ones visible in your photos are replacement ones?

The earlier carriers don't have the driving aid on top of the steering box according to my info.

Ben

Lynn Eades · #7 11-12-11, 20:08

Yes they are there, and as Ben says, the holes are countersunk with a flat finished rivet

RichardT10829 · #8 12-12-11, 09:45

That's great thanks guys !

shaun · #9 12-12-11, 22:58

Richie, While i was working on the Mk1 tonight it does have th 2 rivets as the guys say.

RichardT10829 · #10 13-12-11, 09:29

Ok excelent cheers Shaun... they are very well hidden from the front

been counter sinking the hell out of my armour the last couple of days i have been loaned a pneumatic rivet hammer the chap is seeing if he has some truss head snaps to form the right style head... then i will film myself having a go for you all to laugh at.

Lynn Eades · #11 13-12-11, 10:19

How about some photos of the gun, snaps etc. And whats a trusshead?

eddy8men · #12 13-12-11, 10:21

good for you richie. it's about time someone exploded the myths surrounding riveting. whether you succeed or fail spectactularly it'll be interesting to watch.
we salute you

rick

shaun · #13 13-12-11, 10:31

Richie "The rivet counter as you will now be known world wide" !! The guys who riveted my hull called the low domed head (as on the out side of the carrier) a "Liverpool set". I hope this helps.

Lynn Eades · #14 13-12-11, 10:32

On monday I hope to whack a few into my Bren. Front plate, Div plate, Floor, Floor ancillaries, Both guards. Just a few. Not even thinking about front armour yet.

RichardT10829 · #15 13-12-11, 10:52

Lynn i have to pick the gun up from my mate but will post images up... its either a 2x or a 4x gun but more than up to setting a 3/8ths rivet.... truss head is also known as pan head etc etc Sapphire products (where i get me rivets) call them truss head.... basically the head sets like the cap of a coach bolt.. i have no doubt there are zillions of other names for it.

this is a truss head (already formed)

Philliphastings · #16 13-12-11, 13:00

Rivetting seems to be a bit of a dark art which many of us would like to know more about.

I'm looking at having to set a fair number to get my replacement armour back on. I think I have the rivets sourced and a few ideas how to set them with oxy on my own but I'm always keen to gain more knowledge and advice.

I would love to see a step by step how to photo essay.

In the meantime I have yet to perfect a method of cleanly removing the old rivets.

Cheers and thanks

Phill

RichardT10829 · #17 13-12-11, 13:28

phil see my build thread matey i used 1mm slitting discs a wedge a large hammer and a punch.... or if you have oxy acetyline blow them out from the outside in..

shaun · #18 13-12-11, 17:09

Phil,
i have taken many apart with an Oxy acetalyne torch. the rivrt melts at a way lower temp than the armour. Blow the counter sunk side away and then just smack it out with a big punch and hammer - do not be afraid to hit it hard !!! normally they fly out with one good smack. i stripped Bens hull in a couple of hours ( with tea breaks). Best to practice doing it first, i have tried the drilling and grinding methods but they are a real ball aching methods and time consuming as well.

eddy8men · #19 13-12-11, 19:37

turning out to be a very imformative thread is this ! i think phill hit the nail/rivet

on the head when he said it's a dark art. something that i think many of us would like to be able to do but have no experience of even seeing it being done, which is why i think we all owe richie a debt of gratitude for volunteering to show us how the experts do it.

cheers

rick

RichardT10829 · #20 13-12-11, 20:14

Well.......... for those in the UK who want to have a bash...or those overseas who want to travel

i am happy to ply anyone with tea/cakes/bacon sarnies for their attendance we can all have a bash and fettle it.... really from my readings one person should man the forge / insert the rivet, one man to block and one man to peen...

anyone is welcome would think it would take a couple of days to rivet front sides and rear.

Ben · #21 13-12-11, 20:19

Regarding removing rivets, shuans 100% right about using oxy. I was a little nervous about it until I saw it in action.

It probably does take a little practice but there can't be a more effective way of getting them out. I've shot blasted the panels we did and that gets rid of any splatter from the melted rivets.

We should have videoed doing it so we could post the link, next time perhaps.

Ben