Wake Up Australia

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Diana

Sorry to hear that your ties to the UK is a myth. On the serious side, is there an actual movement to change the design of your national flag? Or, is this a personal pique?

We in Canada went through that exercise in the mid 1960s, ...

... Bruce!

Hi Bruce

Did we have ties to the UK? I know that we have Queen Betty I, Queen of Australia who seems to be the same monarch that the Brits call Queen Elizabeth II!

Yes there is a real movement to change the flag, but momentum for change waxes and wanes but the motivation is very similar to that in Canada without the Québécois.

Personally I acknowledge our historical ties to Great Britain, and watching the US system, very glad we don't have to elect a President, but feel that Australia should have it's own national symbol, like Canada did in the '60s and what Canadian would wish to return the the former emblem today?

This is my point, the flag, whatever its design only represents the nation, it is not the nation in itself and to the point of this thread most Australians who fought and died didn't actually die for the flag but did it for their mates and for the country we love.

Diana

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all - this was sent to me by a mate and is another example of what pisses me off with our current politicians.

Roll on 2013!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS ONE OF A NUMBER OF TIMES WHEN OUR GOVERMENT [PAST & PRESENT ] MAKE ME WISH WE COULD JUST MAKE ALL OF THEM DISAPPEAR & WE COULD START AGAIN WITH PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT AUSTRALIANS & AUSTRALIA
Gillard/Brown Government ... sent by a Vietnam Vet ...
This is your Australia Today

*************************************

Whoever wrote this was really pissed off ... but it's a point well made.

On the 18th of August 1966 at Long Tan , Vietnam , D Company of the 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, mainly made up of Australian National Servicemen and at that time located to support the American Army, fought a battle against the Viet Cong.

In this action D Company lost 18 men killed and 24 injured.

The Viet Cong dead numbered in excess of 245.

The Australian lines were never crossed.

The Viet Cong withdrew.

American President Johnson and US Army Staff recognised the achievement

by awarding the Unit Citation of Gallantry on 30th May 1968. The Award was formally accepted by Queen Elizabeth in 13th June 1968.

Prime Minister John Gorton made the formal presentation of this American Citation to the Battalion at Lavarack Barracks, Townsville on 18th August 1968.

On the 31st of March 2010, D Company of the 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment were belatedly awarded the Australian version of "Unit Citation for Gallantry" (UCG) honouring their extraordinary deeds at Long Tan.

The Government however refused to approve travel payment for the surviving Unit Members or their families, including the families of deceased Unit Members, in order that they be present at the UCG Presentation Ceremony presided over by the Governor General of Australia .

In February 2011 the same Government of Australia footed the Funeral Bill to bury the illegal boat people, who tragically perished on Christmas Island .

This included flying surviving family illegals and survivors to and from Sydney and Xmas Island , accommodating them, etc etc, plus a Coach tour of Sydney thrown in.

The Canberra Politburo had waited 45 years to publicly acknowledge the bravery and sacrifice of these Sons of Australia and then immediately shit on their memory by wetting themselves to appease the feelings of boat illegals forcing entry into our country.

Now we witness what can only be described as attempted political face saving, by this same Government, sponsoring a TV Documentary, to celebrate our Armed Forces accomplishments at Kapyong , Korea in 1951.

This will see our Prime Minister and the entire Priministerial Entourage fly in a RAAF plane to Korea to mark this 60th Anniversary.

What Bloody Hypocrisy!!!

What a Blatant Affront to the feelings of our Nation's serving Armed Forces,

Past and Present.

Shame, Shame, Shame, You Political Parasites.

You do not deserve to represent our country.

[Dianaa]

Absolutely Juliar and her illigitimate government are a pack of hypocrits.

The awarding of the Long-Tan doll is another despicable act of political hacks!

[Little Jo]

Hi All

Couldn't help but to put in my two cents worth. So lets change the words to the that old prayer.

FIRST BOOK OF GOVERNMENT

Julia is the shepherd I did not want.
She leadeth me beside the still factories.
She restoreth my faith in the Liberal party.
She guideth me in the path of unemployment for her party's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the bread line,
I shall fear no hunger for her bailouts are with me.
She has anointed my income with taxes,
My expenses runneth over.
Surely, poverty and hard living will follow me all the days of my life.
And I will live in a rented home forever.
I am glad I am Australian. I am glad that I am free.
But I wish I was a dog, and Julia was a tree.

Cheers

Tony

[motto]

It's great to be reminded once again that I'm not alone in my contempt for the time servers in Cancera. Good stuff!

David

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

Hi Bruce

...This is my point, the flag, whatever its design only represents the nation, it is not the nation in itself and to the point of this thread most Australians who fought and died didn't actually die for the flag but did it for their mates and for the country we love. Diana

Diana,

Very interesting. I served my country for over 20 years and I can state that my mates and I saw our flag as inseparable from our country. Our flag represents more than a geographical location - it represents our way of life, our families, our friends and our ideals.

I can't see how you can separate the flag from the country. Then again, I am not a liberal so these fancy notions escape me.

Is your point based on something you read, or did you serve or are you serving in the military? On what do you base your hypothesis?

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Diana,

Very interesting. I served my country for over 20 years and I can state that my mates and I saw our flag as inseparable from our country. Our flag represents more than a geographical location - it represents our way of life, our families, our friends and our ideals.

I can't see how you can separate the flag from the country. Then again, I am not a liberal so these fancy notions escape me.

Is your point based on something you read, or did you serve or are you serving in the military? On what do you base your hypothesis?

Two British officers Lieutenants Teignmouth Melvill and Neville Coghill were awarded (posthumously) the Victoria Cross for their gallantry at the battle of Isandhlwana. They died trying to protect the Queens colour of the Regiment.

Point being there are countless examples of men dying in wars for standards or colours because they do represent so much more.

I put it to you that Australians in war have died for the Flag and I also put it to you that they have died for the Union Jack as well.

For my part the Australian Flag should never be touched or altered......ever.

[Little Jo]

Hi Guys

I am not one for change just for the sake of change and would not like to see our flag changed from what it is now. I served under this flag for 10 years and it does not matter where you go in the world you will feel a tug at your heart strings when you see our flag flying. Ok it has the Union Jack in the corner which is British but we have the stars of the southern cross below it which is Australian. If you look at the official flag of Hawaii you will see they still have the Union Jack in the top left corner.

I was disgusted to see Aboriginals burn and trample our flag the day after Australia Day. I know they have grievances, but we are all Australian so do not dishonour our flag it is an insult to the Aboriginal soldiers who served, fought and died under our flag.

LEAVE THE FLAG ALONE AND BE A PROUD AUSTRALIAN.

Cheers

Tony

[easo]

The history of the australian flag

following federation as a new nation (the commonwealth of australia) on 1st january, 1901 the commonwealth government announced a federal flag design competition on 29th april, 1901. The review of review for australiasia, a melbourne journal, had initiated an australian flag competition in 1900, a unique event at the time. It was agreed that the entries received by this journal would be accepted in the government’s competition. The contest attracted 32,823 entries from men, women and children. An expert panel of judges assessed the entries using guidelines which included history, heraldry, distinctiveness, utility and cost of manufacture, on 3rd september, 1901, a public ceremony was held at the royal exhibition building, melbourne, where lady hopetoun, wife of the governor-general, opened a display of the entries in the competition. The prime minister of australia, sir edmund barton, announced that five entrants, who had submitted similar designs, were to share the honour of being declared the designers of australia’s own flag. They were: Ivor evans, a fourteen-year-old schoolboy from melbourne; leslie john hawkins, a teenager apprenticed to a sydney optician; egbert john nuttall, a melbourne architect; annie dorrington, an artist from perth; and william stevens, a ship’s officer from auckland, new zealand. The commonwealth government and the review of reviews for australasia provided ₤75 each and the havelock tobacco company added ₤50 to this making a total of ₤200 prize money, a considerable amount at the time. The five winners received ₤40 each.

The australian national flag features the five stars of the constellation of the southern cross and the commonwealth star, and the combined crosses of st george, st andrew and st patrick. The union of crosses represents australia’s early settlers. The commonwealth star with its seven points represents the unity of the six australian states and the seventh point stands for all australian territories. Under the flags act of 1953, passed unanimously by parliament, it was confirmed that our "stars and crosses" design be the chief national symbol by law, custom and tradition and that it be honoured with the title "australian national flag". The new status of the national flag was emphasized when the act of parliament received royal assent from queen elizabeth ii, on her majesty’s visit to australia in 1954. The australian rules of flag etiquette are designed to ensure that the national flag is displayed with the dignity befitting its status.

The australian national flag identifies a free and democratic people in a nation united in purpose. Our national flag belongs equally to all australians whatever their origins. Each of the symbols on the flag has a special meaning for australians. The stars of the southern cross represent our geographic position in the southern hemisphere; the commonwealth star stands for our federation of states and territories; the crosses represent the principles on which our nation is based, namely, parliamentary democracy, rule of law and freedom of speech.

In 1996 the governor-general, sir william deane, proclaimed 3rd september as australian national flag day, to commemorate the day in 1901 on which our national flag of "stars and crosses" was first flown. It is the right and privilege of every australian to fly the australian national flag.

[easo]

I am the national flag of the Commonwealth of Australia. I belong to you & every Australian, equally & freely.

I was conceived before the dawn of the century.

Designed by Ivor Evans, I was chosen over & above some 32,000 contenders.

Although I was never an orphan, I was adopted on that sparkling Spring day, the 3rd September, 1901, when I flew above the Exhibition Building in Melbourne. I was hailed & celebrated by people standing on the threshold of nationhood. They took me to their hearts.

In that official ceremony, in the presence of our first Prime Minister, I became the chief symbol of a new nation, embracing the ideals of self-determination, national sovereignty & personal freedom under God.

I have been hoisted aloft over many buildings, from humble homes to the Houses of Parliament. I have listened to every Prime Minister declare his allegiance to me, to our Monarch, & to our Constitution. I have witnessed the pledge of each one to protect & defend those freedoms we all cherish, even above life itself.

I am carried with pride in ceremonies & processions. I have draped the caskets of your national heroes carried to their last resting place. The caskets of Kings & Queens, eminent Statesmen, Generals, Admirals, humble Privates & the Unknown Soldier.

Wherever free men gather, wherever there is justice, faith, hope, charity & truth; there too, am I.

At the tender age of 14 years, I received my baptism of fire in World War I. I flew proudly in those early days as we heard the call to do battle alongside those of our own kin. I was carried up the steep hills of Gallipoli & I was there with the men in the trenches. I watched Simpson bring out the wounded on his doughy little donkey. I breathed the dust of the deserts & rode in glory with the Light Horse Brigade. I saw our finest sons fall & lie still. They had given their last full measure of devotion. The war was over for them forever, but I kept my lonely vigil over their graves & stayed to watch the flowers grow amid the crosses, row upon row, in Flanders Fields. Oh, young Australia, I was there with your fathers whom I longed to comfort. Look at me again.

Lest you forget.

You know me by my distinctive emblems.

The *Union Jack is the tie that binds us to your ancestors & rich heritage down through the centuries.

The upright red cross on a white field is the Cross of St George, Patron Saint of England. This Cross was there when King John set his royal seal on Magna Carta in 1215 & it was there when Simon de Montfort brought together the very first Parliament in 1265, making England truly the Mother of Parliaments.

I proudly wear two other crosses. The white diagonal cross on a blue field is the Cross of St Andrew, Patron Saint of Scotland. The red diagonal cross on a white field is the Cross of St Patrick, Patron Saint of Ireland. These three crosses which perhaps you scarcely understand, unite our heritage in this wonderful land & forge our future in an inseparable bond. The blazing Southern Cross marks our way ahead while the seven-pointed Federation Star joins our states & territories in a single, yet united, commonwealth. All this set in a field of blue - the blue of our southern skies & of the endless ocean washing our golden, sandy beaches & coral shores. We are the heirs to a culture, rich & diverse. We are the offspring child of a great empire. We have a glorious tomorrow. We are one.

Lest you forget.

I have been to many places. I have seen many things.

With our explorers, I’ve crossed the icy wastes of Antarctica & climbed the heights of Mt Everest. I look down with pride on our mighty sportsmen & women as they win honours for their country all over the world. At every official or memorable event in this land, I hold the position of honour.

Following World War I, we frolicked in our newfound liberty, growth, prosperity, increase & our common wealth. But far to the north, in Russia, a new tyranny spewed forth, slaughtering the rich & regal, the lowly & humble, usurping the sovereignty of nations not of its own. We watched from afar, protected by the border of oceans. Then came 1939 & once again, we heard the beat of the warmonger’s drums. Again, my heart went out to our brave soldiers, sailors & airmen. I was there with them. In the Middle East, in New Guinea, Borneo & many other places. I was trodden in the mud red with the blood of those brave young Australians so ruthlessly murdered in prison of war camps.

Lest you forget.

Finally, in ’45, peace at last. So we thought. With just a few short years rest, I was again carried into battle, caught up in further hostilities by those promoting war. I watched & praised the endurance & spirit of our volunteers in Korea. I, too, felt the sufferings of our brave sons & daughters in the forces in Vietnam.

Lest you forget.

I am well-known & remembered in many places. I am flown every day in the school at Villers-Bretonneux, in France, where grateful children & teachers do not forget their debt to Australian soldiers. I am many things to many people. To some, I am yesterday, today & tomorrow, an inseparable link in the chain that binds men to God & country. And because I am on the side of God through our great heritage, there are the God-less who seek to destroy me & replace those three Christian crosses with plants or animals, but they dare not. Why? Because today, I am everywhere. In the homes of the humble & the mansions of millionaires. I am in the cities, the suburbs & in country towns. From coast to coast, right across this great nation, I am raised with pride & dignity. Oh, my people, you have given so much to be Australian & I am proud that we are one. Bonded through trial & triumph. Look at me & remember our heritage & realise our great future. Together, we will grow, & all the world will know.

You must never allow those who seek to reduce diversity into dust, to grind our treasures into a melting pot. And as you consider the future of your own true identity, remember, I was there in your every hour of loss, your every moment of glory. So too, I will be there in all your tomorrows, though proud, loyal & glorious through all my short history, there is one thing for which I need you most of all. I cannot fasten myself to the flagstaff.

Lest you forget.

The above verse is from the song "The Voice of the Australian Flag", performed by Larry Hannigan.

http://www.larryhannigan.com/VOFproducts.htm

[easo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4VYM7BuEdk

I'm proud of it and I wear it every day.... In various colors and backgrounds.


Regards Easo

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by Little Jo

Hi Guys

I am not one for change just for the sake of change and would not like to see our flag changed from what it is now. I served under this flag for 10 years and it does not matter where you go in the world you will feel a tug at your heart strings when you see our flag flying. Ok it has the Union Jack in the corner which is British but we have the stars of the southern cross below it which is Australian. If you look at the official flag of Hawaii you will see they still have the Union Jack in the top left corner.

I was disgusted to see Aboriginals burn and trample our flag the day after Australia Day. I know they have grievances, but we are all Australian so do not dishonour our flag it is an insult to the Aboriginal soldiers who served, fought and died under our flag.

LEAVE THE FLAG ALONE AND BE A PROUD AUSTRALIAN.

Cheers

Tony

OK Guys I seem to be in the minority here, its just to me like many others including Ted Egan I want to see the Union flag removed from our flag's canton.

Tony's comment about the flag pulling heart strings is true, but after a period away from Australia seeing a red Qantas tail at some far off airport does the same for me even if I may be flying United or KLM at the time.

To me the Union Flag represents suppression and subjugation. I think about the Scots at Culloden, the banning of their national cloth and the stealing of their lands and gifting them to English Aristocracy. So we start with the flag of England's St George flying on top of Scotland's flag of St Andrew to form the Queen Anne Flag. The Scottish independance movement is still alive and well.

Then the English take the Queen Anne Flag and suppress and subjugate the Irish and similar to happenings in Scotland, the Irish lands are stolen and gifted to English aristocracy. During the "potatoe famine" the English landlords were exporting Irish grown produce for sale in England while the Irish were starving.* The Irish flag of St Patrick is then added underneath the Queen Anne Flag to form the Union Flag, and notice only the cross of St George of England remains untruncated, the other two crosses are reduced in half. The independence movement of Northern Ireland is alive and well.

We then come to Australia, each night we can look skyward and see the Southern Cross as represented in our flag against a blue background of our sky, unfortunatly a quarter of our view is obliterated by the Union Flag flying under our unbounded sky. I remember the Irish political prisoners transported to Australia for nothing more that demonstrating for the independance of their homeland, never to see Ireland again.

* Back the potatoe famine, our Government would do well to learn the lesson of the Irish as they allow the Chinese to buy up huge swathes of our prime agricultural land in an unregulated manner.

[Little Jo]

Hi Guys

I am impressed with the good debate going on here and the true feelings expressed by members from the commonwealth countries, we all have the same heritage and gripes. I was 7 years old when my family immigrated from Holland after WW2 for a better life. In those days as migrants we HAD TO PAY to come to Australia, As a new immigrant family in a country town in 1950 we were not welcomed by many who were still racist towards us at first. But they soon realized we were hard working and my parents made a good life for the family and I must say we have all turned out well, Australia has been good to us and we became Australian in all ways. I have never thought of myself as anything other than Australian and I am sure this goes for all other immigrants from Europe as well. Though I still fly the Dutch Flag on the 5th May to celebrate the liberation of out town by Canadian forces.

TRUE BLUE AUSSIE.

Cheers

Tony

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Little Jo

:Ok it has the Union Jack in the corner which is British but we have the stars of the southern cross below it which is Australian.

Is it?? I'm surprised Lynn didn't pipe up here and mention the New Zealand flag and also claim ownership of the Southern Cross.

I remember being at a Wallabies Vs Springboks Rugby match a few years back and seeing the surprised/confused looks of each teams supporters who were decked out in green and gold and the Southern Cross, or gold and green and the Southern Cross.

The depiction, as a celestial formation, is used on around a dozen National, State or Regional official emblems from various countries around the Southern Hemisphere. This is what Wikipedia has to say:

"Beginning in the colonial age, the constellation Crux became used as a national symbol by several southern nations. The brightest stars of Crux appear on the flags of Australia, Brazil, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and Samoa. They also appear on the flags of the Australian state of Victoria, the Australian Capital Territory, the Northern Territory, as well as the flag of Magallanes Region of Chile, the flag of Londrina (Brazil) and several Argentine provincial flags and emblems (for example,, Tierra del Fuego and Santa Cruz). The Argentine Air Force acrobatic display team is called Cruz del Sur, the Spanish for "Southern Cross". The Southern Cross was written into the lyrics of "Advance Australia Fair" in 1901: "Beneath our radiant Southern Cross", and also included in the lyrics of the Brazilian National Anthem (1909): "A imagem do Cruzeiro resplandece" ("the image of the Cross shines"). The five stars are also in the logo of the Brazilian football team Cruzeiro Esporte Clube and the Brazilian coat of arms, and even featured as the name of the currency (the cruzeiro from 1942 to 1986 and again from 1990 to 1994. The constellation is displayed in all coins of the current series of the Brazilian real."

So our claim to it as solely Australian is utterly ridiculous. I wonder if any nations in the Northern Hemisphere would claim sovereignty as an emblem over say the Pole Star? The closest we would come to our own unique design using the Southern Cross is the Eureka Flag, which also represents the sentiments expressed here by many.

But what does really bug me is that you can't find Australian MADE flags anymore, they're all cheap imports from Asia that invariably have errors of some sort. It doesn't matter if you buy a current Official flag, a Boxing Kangaroo or even an Aboriginal Rising Sun, they all seem to be from overseas. Even going to your local Federal Member and asking for an Official Flag (which they are obliged to provide, did you know?), will result in you getting a cheap screen-printed nylon piece of rubbish that even has a tag saying "Made In C****"!

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Diana,

Very interesting. I served my country for over 20 years and I can state that my mates and I saw our flag as inseparable from our country. Our flag represents more than a geographical location - it represents our way of life, our families, our friends and our ideals.

I can't see how you can separate the flag from the country. Then again, I am not a liberal so these fancy notions escape me.

Is your point based on something you read, or did you serve or are you serving in the military? On what do you base your hypothesis?

Interestingly it seems my opinion is only valuable if I wore a military uniform, well no I didn't, but that is not the point is it, I wore a uniform in civilian services for more than 35 years and had my country needed my nursing services in a battle zone overseas I would have signed up in a second. Many of my generation were too late for Vietnam and even though many joined the military very few actually served anywhere but Australia, so what does their practicing to defend the Country make their service any more valuable than my service in the front line of trauma and emergency saving the lives of Australians. And if you would like to know I represented the people of Australia working for the United Nations but no I never faced any bullets.

My hypothesis is not that the National Flag is not a symbol worthy of honour, but IMHO like Canada I feel we deserve a flag which identifies an independant Australia, not something that has the Union Flag (its not a jack unless its on a ship) occupying the most important 25%.

[hrpearce]

I'm a forth generation Australian Grazier in my mid 50's and I dont want the flag to change. My ancestors came from England, Scotland, Wales and France.
To me the flag represents where I came from 1/4 and where I live in freedom 3/4.

[chris vickery]

Wow, talk about a post going off on a tangent...
I thought that the intent of this post was to point out your politicians favourism toward immigration (immigrants) and their rights and needs over those of native born sons?
Wake Up Australia might as well be called Wake Up Canada.
I believe that the UK based Paliamentary system that all of us Colonials live under is seriously broken.
We have all the same complaints as you lot, same being said by our brethren in the UK.
The UK and their social tolerance policies began in the 1960`s and the country has gone downhill ever since. The problems that they faced in light of being PC are just becoming to be known to us. I would say that Britain would have been a good example of ``lessons learned``, but in spite of the economic and social problems faced internally, Canada and Australia decided to jump on board with the hogwash policy of political correctness.
Derek pointed out that people in the US are starting to boil; I believe it to be the same case here in Canada as well. Being typical Canadians, we tend to play our cards close to the vest but, I truly believe that many of my fellow countrymen have deep seated angst for the abuse we suffer from the government as native born sons.
Just to show my point, the city of Toronto is approx 3 million persons. According to a recent census report, it was stated that the population is made up of approx 51% immigrants. Now considering that our political system uses representation by population, this equates to the possibility that one day foreigners will be dictating our values....Also, it used to be that within our system, the Liberal party was ususally the go to vote for immigrants. It has got to the point that within these communities, immigrants are fielding political candidates within all 3 major political parties. So alas, voting Liberal is not necessarily a vote in favour of supporting more immigration. By infiltrating the Federal government and stacking the House, it is quite contemptable that one day soon we will be the minority...

[Marc van Aalderen]

Same problem in Holland. Too many immigrants, legal and illegal, getting into all sorts of crime. Worst thing the Dutch Authorities ever did was giving Dutch citizenship to children of immigrants born in the Netherlands. now we can't even kick them out when they commit crimes cause they are Dutch!

I think this pollitical correctness does not work at all. Some people are waking up though. Even in Government. There now is talk that immigrants who commit a crime can be sent back to where they came from.

Cheers,

[chris vickery]

Don`t get me wrong, we are all immigrants or descendants of, here in Canada. My personal beef regards placing foreign ideology, customs and beliefs upon MY culture ahead of that of natural citizens.
My grandfather emigrated as an orphan with nothing at the turn of the century as a Bernardo Home Child. He made a good life for all with a lot of hard work and determination and never asked anyone for a handout. The rest of my family came over from Ireland and Germany and did the same.
Truth is, Canada and our system, like that of other Commonwealth nations, was based originally upon Christian heritage common to the UK. Take a look at our culture, our laws, our beliefs, morality, values, and our governmental structure. There is a place for immigration within our borders, albeit by our rules. We should make no apology for the way we behave within our nation. All that we ask is that newcomers do the same, abide by our rules and be part of our society. I find it suprising that so many want to come here and change everything, rather than embrace a new found freedom.
Anyone remember the old saying, when in Rome, do as the Romans do?
Afterall, I am sure my WASP heritage and ideology would not be endorsed in many places on this earth, hence a reluctance to venture there.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Wow, talk about a post going off on a tangent...
I thought that the intent of this post was to point out your politicians favourism toward immigration (immigrants) and their rights and needs over those of native born sons?
Wake Up Australia might as well be called Wake Up Canada.
I believe that the UK based Paliamentary system that all of us Colonials live under is seriously broken.
We have all the same complaints as you lot, same being said by our brethren in the UK.
The UK and their social tolerance policies began in the 1960`s and the country has gone downhill ever since. The problems that they faced in light of being PC are just becoming to be known to us. I would say that Britain would have been a good example of ``lessons learned``, but in spite of the economic and social problems faced internally, Canada and Australia decided to jump on board with the hogwash policy of political correctness.
Derek pointed out that people in the US are starting to boil; I believe it to be the same case here in Canada as well. Being typical Canadians, we tend to play our cards close to the vest but, I truly believe that many of my fellow countrymen have deep seated angst for the abuse we suffer from the government as native born sons.
Just to show my point, the city of Toronto is approx 3 million persons. According to a recent census report, it was stated that the population is made up of approx 51% immigrants. Now considering that our political system uses representation by population, this equates to the possibility that one day foreigners will be dictating our values....Also, it used to be that within our system, the Liberal party was ususally the go to vote for immigrants. It has got to the point that within these communities, immigrants are fielding political candidates within all 3 major political parties. So alas, voting Liberal is not necessarily a vote in favour of supporting more immigration. By infiltrating the Federal government and stacking the House, it is quite contemptable that one day soon we will be the minority...

Chris...When I was growing up in Halifax in the '50's and '60's the population was about 80% White..19% black and 1% Asian..if memory serves correct..
Every one was a Canadian..The Blacks were descended from British slaves released in Halifax by their British masters in the early 1800's..the Chinese ..Immigrants that came to Canada to build the railways in the mid 1800's..
And everyone got along and we all joined the military and were good Canadians..
Now..Canada is ????White ....????% Black ......????% Asian...and 50% Brown....
The problem is that the second and third generation immigrants still are dual citizens for their old country's that they have never been to ..but where their fathers or grand fathers came from and they still hold on to all the old traditions and laws and idea's from their old past lives..
2nd and third generations..!!
They will never be Canadians..Canadian by convenience only..
Sneak back to their old country's ..get arrested ..expect Canada to bail them out and fly them home to Canad the then sue the Canadian government using welfare lawyers and welfare checks to sue Canada for the mistreatment they suffered in their old countries...
PC Bullshit..
I'm so cranked it wants to make me PUKE>>>
Get rid of the lot..If they protest..and I see it here in Ottawa because the embassy are all here ..If they don't like what is going on in their own Country's ..they storm their embassy's in Ottawa ..then sue the Canadian government for not straightening out the shit that is going on by the dictators that are running their country's ..
and it will continue....

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

Interestingly it seems my opinion is only valuable if I wore a military uniform, well no I didn't,..

Dianna,

You raised the issue using soldiers as examples. Don't worry though, soldiers whether serving or retired, are used to folks using us for their own gain. Good luck with your quest.

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Dianna,

You raised the issue using soldiers as examples. Don't worry though, soldiers whether serving or retired, are used to folks using us for their own gain. Good luck with your quest.

Ron

There is no gripe and I have nothing to gain and certainly not on the backs of soldiers.

As I said in my earlier posts Aussie Soldiers fought under the Union Flag for more than half of the last century, if there was an Australian National Flag present it was always with the Union Flag atop the main flagstaff. Both my Grandfathers fought under the Union Flag, one a RAE sapper on the Somme and one a RAAF pilot officer with the RAF.

[malcolm erik bogaert]

Dianna you are quite wrong on one point the lands in Scotland were not gifted to the English toffs at all rather the establishment in London took the sons of the old chiefs and turned them into English Gentlemen! In some cases they were much worse than the old enemy as regarding the clearances etc...however one plus point in all this is.that the colonys benefited greatly by the influx of good highland stock...best regards malcol m

[motto]

Those who hold a grudge against the Poms for past misdeeds should also remember that the people represented by that flag virtually stood alone when the NAZI juggernaut looked like realising the dreams of the insane criminal/s running the show.

I for one am not ashamed to be associated with them and have no problem with the Union Flag being in the corner of our own. It is not a symbol of domination, it merely represents our roots as the Southern cross represents where we are now. What may be or is yet to come is in the blue. At least that's the way I see it.

The Canadians changed their flag because they had to to mollify the separatists. I see no good reason to change our own. I like it the way it is.

As far as the aboriginals and their grievances are concerned, just one question to throw a different light on the subject. How would they have fared if the Japanese had overrun the country? We all know the answer to that one. It's about time they took responsibility for their own future instead of blaming the evil white man for all their problems. They will never get anywhere until they do.

David

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

Ron

There is no gripe and I have nothing to gain and certainly not on the backs of soldiers.

As I said in my earlier posts Aussie Soldiers fought under the Union Flag for more than half of the last century, if there was an Australian National Flag present it was always with the Union Flag atop the main flagstaff. Both my Grandfathers fought under the Union Flag, one a RAE sapper on the Somme and one a RAAF pilot officer with the RAF.

An eloquent defence for the current flag.

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

An eloquent defence for the current flag.

But seemingly not adequate for our cousins the Canadians to keep the Union Flag in their canton.