CWM visit

[chris vickery]

Terry, what got me most on the veh displays was how incorrect many of them are; I was also appalled at the condition of many vehicles. It seems to me that us collectors are far better versed and take much more pride and care of our stuff.
How about the Pzkfw 2 that has MB marker lights?
I am sure Barry Churchers Armoured truck looks much better than the CMW example as well. I can point to much better examples for the most part that are in private hands.
I understand that funding for museums is subject to approvals, cutbacks etc but many people that are interested in these items look to the "experts" as they are the ones supposed to be in the "know"...

[Bob Phillips]

Sorry guys but I just can't pass by without comment, In spite of the many minor criticisms we could all make about the CWM or other museums- they deserve credit for the most part - as places who aquire and hold on the vehicles the rest of have owned and flipped. When I first approached the CWM to advise them about the treasures being disposed of in Toronto ( Levy Auto Parts- 25 yrs ago) I was told by the then curator " we have no money and I have no time for this" When Jim Whittham took over things changed- they have an impressive vehicle collection and an interest in presenting it to the public. Are there problems with govt run museums - of course, but I would limit my public criticism of the CWM because overall their accomplishments far outweigh the shortcomings.We have some other museums ( military bases etc) that have impressive collections and might benefit from some volunteers efforts on their behalf. The impressive collection at Base Borden comes to mind.

[Robin Craig]

Ooooo, I'm going to pull up a sandbag and listen and watch this one. This could get very interesting.

Some very interesting comments


R

[chris vickery]

My point is that I know of Privately funded museums and collections which take more care and consideration in their collections- without government assistance, without volunteers.
Granted the CWM does indeed do what they can but even a museum "volunteer" agreed with me when I pointed out the incorrect lights on the Pzkfw 2. His response "take it up with management as I have before, good luck"... So it seems that within the organization there are those who know whats right, wrong etc but fighting a bureacracy which does not care.
When I first got into collecting mvs, I though that the CWM was the be all , end all of preservation; until I got educated.
Would some of our foreign members chime in here? Are your museums the same/better/worse? I am thinking the Tank Museum at Bovington/Jacques Littlefield Collection, Wheatcroft Collection etc?
It looks to me that I could have thrown my old junker M38A1 into the collection and call it a "museum piece".
Maybe I am too much a purist but I know it "bugs" me when something is not correct for one of my projects.

[Mike Cecil]

Ahhh, yes, this could be a VERY interesting thread! But I too, cannot pass up on the opportunity to contribute.....

As someone from another Commonwealth country who has been on both sides of the fence (private collector/restorer and govt museum curator), there are a LOT more issues to consider in the museum sphere than with one's own items. In simple terms, it is not the look of the item that is the deciding factor in considering working on a item (be that to acquire, to restore, to simply conserve as is, etc etc), but a myriad of intersection considerations, many of which often conflict. Did the PzKw2 arrive at CWM with the incorrect light? Who/what/when/where were they acquired/put on, etc etc. It's not only the battle history of an object that is important, but at the end of the day, the curatorial staff and conservation staff make informed and balanced judgements based on their experience and recommendations to management about how management's goals for the museum collection (ie how this items fits with the overall policy) can be achieved with a certain item. Again, this can range from 'conserve it as is', to full restoration to running standard. The question is never as simplistic as 'its got the the wrong lights...'.

On the other side of the coin, as a visitor to CWM many years ago, I have to say I was a little taken aback with the many minor factual technical errors in the displays, but every museum suffers from that to a greater or lesser degree: the AWM certainly is guilty of that, too. It's how they react and respond when informed (politely) that counts.

Mike C

(retired Head of Military Heraldry and Technology, Australian War Memorial, Canberra)

[rob love]

Easy to pass judgment when we own and restore maybe one or two vehicles at a time, to a maximum of maybe 5. Try it with 50 vehicles or more and see how you are able to keep up.

I visited the CWM a few times on my way overseas the last couple years. I enjoyed the equipments, and was glad to see them displayed, rather than looking for faults.

Here in Shilo, a long running faux-pas was the painting of the wheel nuts on some of the CMPs. Someone did a restoration of a signals van many years ago and painted the wheel nuts red and the rim nuts white. The mistake was carried on through a few more restorations, including the 1940 Ford pilot truck. Seemed like every tour the club would make to the museum, this flaw was picked up. And yet we were looking at a very decent sized collection of Canadian vehicles.

Needless to say, I had a volunteer go around the collection painting rim nuts red the other day. When he comes in again he will be painting wheel nuts white on those vehicles that had them in red. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Bob Phillips]

Just a thought about private collections- the first private collection that I really got familiar with was Bill Greggs collection. He was the first, to proceed on a systematic and well funded effort to preserve Canadian vehicle history. There were probably lots of things wrong with his restored vehicles - but that hardly matters - he probably did more as an individual for promoting an interest in this area than anyone else. Many years ago Brian Asbury and I were visting an MV meet in California, and a fellow came up to look at some #19 set parts we had. He invited us to stop by and see his few vehicles on out way back up to San F. Little did we know when we pulled up to the gates of the estate overlooking the Bay it was to be our introduction to Jacques Littlefield. He had only a few armoured vehicles but it was his passion. He showed us many other things he enjoyed( model railroads, a huge custom built pipe organ etc) We visited for a few hours and he toured us around his estate- a truly nice guy with an interest we all shared. The difference of course is when you combine the passion and the financial means to persue it..details count and it shows in the final result.