Coil placement for 42-48 Flathead

Jordan Baker · #1 24-05-12, 03:34

Hi everyone.

Im trying to figure out the best place to mount my coil in my Carrier. My engine has the 42-48 style crab distributor and it uses a coil mounted on a bracket. However I know I can find these brackets on Ebay, but I am using a modern coil.

Does anyone know if the original style 42-48 coil bracket will still mount to the engines LS head with the ignition suppresor that is there? I don't want to buy one of these brackets to find out it doesn't fit.

Anyone have pictures of how the army did it? They would have used these engines as replacements I would think.

Ive included a picture of the bracket as this is what I believe was used.

The Bedford Boys · #2 24-05-12, 08:27

My Uncle's LP carrier has the coil mounted up in the air dam so it doesn't get too hot and create problems when trying to start the engine after it's been running.

Stew Robertson · #3 25-05-12, 14:41

Maybe I missed something but as far as I know all canadian carries had the coil mounted on the distributor with the diver helmet caps
Stew
PS I could be wrong Done that before

Jordan Baker · #4 25-05-12, 15:16

I found this picture of an engine being placed into or removed from the carrier and it has the crab distributor on it.

chris vickery · #5 25-05-12, 16:17

Just an FYI for those who are unaware,
the flathead motor came in 3 sequential versions;
1937-41, typical with the diver helmet distributor
1942-48, typical with the crab style distributor
1949-53, typical side block mounted distributor similar to modern style
I would think that very early carriers such as the MK1 might have the earliest block with the divers type. They were inherently known for electrical breakdown due to burning up coils due to the location deep down at the front of the motor and intense engine heat.
The 2nd version (crab) used the remotely mounted coil atop the engine to get away from this problem. You can adapt an early block to accept the 2nd model dizzy but it requires the timing cover plate from a 42-48 engine as the mounting is different.
Any flathead I have even done, I have made sure to go to the 2nd version.
Changing coils on a diver helmet type is a PITA.
Also the only way to properly time these distributors is to do them on an original timing fixture. I have had a couple arguements with guys who insist the reason their engine is running so poorly is because of this or that etc. Time and time again, it is the distributor.(bad coil)

Perry Kitson · #6 25-05-12, 22:59

I too, was under the impression that all Canadian carriers used the early Ford engine. It would make sense that all engines supplied to the army would have been kept to the early style(pre '42) to ease supply of spares. Even the parts manual only shows one style of distributor. When I was rebuilding my engine, the rebuilder suggested putting on the crab style distributor. At the time, my father mentioned that he thought that you could not swap out the front cover and fit the crab style distributor because the cam shaft was longer to drive the early style twin cap distributor. The front plate was changed, and sure enough, the crab style distributor would not sit back because of the cam shaft. Maybe someone with more flathead expertise could chime in. I would think that it is a good idea to keep the coil away from the heat. I have relocated my coil on the twin cap distributor to rad shroud to get it away from excess heat.

Perry

Jordan Baker · #7 25-05-12, 23:41

never thought of it mounting on rad shroud. That might just work for me and still keep the modern coil out of most sight lines.

Lynn Eades · #8 26-05-12, 01:23

Perry, I think the cam stays the same. It would be the dizzy mounting plate, that changed. you should be able to mount either dizzy on the same motor, with the appropriate plate (two bolt mount or 3 bolt mount)

Jordan, you can mount the coil anywhere you like.

We have had it pointed out previously on this forum, that even a NOS ford coil may be u/s. They were unreliable because of the insulation.
(search the many postings by Tony Smith (not the real one))

Jordan Baker · #9 26-05-12, 16:31

Even if you change over the front plate, the 42-48 flatheads have the cam head sitting back a bit more then the 37-41 flatheads. Although I have seen a small adaptor spacer you can buy and it then allows you to have the diversbell distributor instead.

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #10 26-05-12, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Perry, I think the cam stays the same. It would be the dizzy mounting plate, that changed. you should be able to mount either dizzy on the same motor, with the appropriate plate (two bolt mount or 3 bolt mount)

Jordan, you can mount the coil anywhere you like.

We have had it pointed out previously on this forum, that even a NOS ford coil may be u/s. They were unreliable because of the insulation.
(search the many postings by Tony Smith (not the real one))

I'm with Perry on this one. There is a different cam (and front cover). I have an adapter that allows the short cam to be used with the other distributor but it obviously won't work the other way around.

Mac's auto has now Ford coils that are cosmetic duplicates of the old but without the 'tar' insulation problem.

Lynn Eades · #11 26-05-12, 23:28

O.K. I'm a learner. I have one of those little round adapters as well. I wondered when it was used.

If I hadn't made the comment, a lot of us would never had learned about it, on this valuable forum (Is it true we have 5000 members, and only 50 of us have helped to keep it going?)

I guess it is also good to have noted the difference between "New Old Stock" and "New Stock" (will Macs give us a discount for the advertising?)

My apologies Perry

Jordan Baker · #12 27-05-12, 01:22

Thread hijacker......

Anyway, I made up a mounting bracket for the coil so that all of the needed wires would reach it and so that it was in the air flow.

I believe it turned out rather well.

Stew Robertson · #13 27-05-12, 02:07

If you are going to do it do it right
when you spend all the time and money on a restoration and make it it look so good
why not do it right
Just my opinion and you can shoot me down any time at all
of the carriers that I have done including the later T16 they all had the helmet style ditributor
If someone has an original carrier with claw style caps I would like to know for my own information
Stew

Maurice Donckers · #14 27-05-12, 16:51

O my carrier I have the hemet style distributor, with a new original tar filled coil , and ballast resistor . It works fine till now .(4Years)
on my Fordson WOT 2 I have placed a ww2 ribbed armored vehicle coil, because ordinary 12v coils can`t cope with it .
In my F15A I mounted a coil on the original position , with the bracket which is shown in the first picture . problem was when switched off would`t restart , or by tow start run very erratic , found out heat from flathead would rise up into coil and it would refuse , moved it next to the shroud , and problem solved . So be careful on mounting it on top of the flathead.

Perry Kitson · #15 27-05-12, 21:44

No need for apologies Lynn. At the time I was quite amazed that my father new about the distributor swap problem on flatheads, and the engine rebuilder did not, and he specialized in Ford flatheads. A number of car guys I have talked to about the distributor troubles on Ford flatheads have told me that they have switched to electronic ignitions. Makes for virtually trouble free driving, which is what the hobby is about.

Perry

Tony Smith · #16 28-05-12, 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

Even if you change over the front plate, the 42-48 flatheads have the cam head sitting back a bit more then the 37-41 flatheads. Although I have seen a small adaptor spacer you can buy and it then allows you to have the diversbell distributor instead.

Other way around. The 42-48 cam is LONGER, the 37-41 cam is SHORTER.
If you want to put a 42-48 "Crab" distributor on a 37-41 engine (221ci), besides swapping the front cover plate, you need ONE OF THESE. If you want to put a 37-41 "Diver's Helmet" distributor on a 42-48 engine, you need ONE OF THESE.

If you want to keep a Diver's Helmet distributor, but want to move the coil away from the front of the engine (or convert to 12v), you want ONE OF THESE

Virtually all of the electronic distributors require converting to a 12v system.

Jacques Reed · #17 31-05-22, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

Hi everyone.

Im trying to figure out the best place to mount my coil in my Carrier. My engine has the 42-48 style crab distributor and it uses a coil mounted on a bracket. However I know I can find these brackets on Ebay, but I am using a modern coil.

Does anyone know if the original style 42-48 coil bracket will still mount to the engines LS head with the ignition suppresor that is there? I don't want to buy one of these brackets to find out it doesn't fit.

Anyone have pictures of how the army did it? They would have used these engines as replacements I would think.

Ive included a picture of the bracket as this is what I believe was used.

Hi Jordan,

I had the great pleasure of meeting Tony Smith last night for the first time. In our conversations, while looking at my engine, he mentioned the mounting bracket for the coil on Ford CMP's and how it might also be used on the carrier. I am not sure if this is the thread he was referring to but here is the original bracket as used on Ford CMP's to mount it above the generator which also helps brace the long oil filler tube. Both of us have not seen many of these original type coil brackets/oil filler braces here in Australia.

From F-15A Parts List 1943

*C29Q 6748 Pipe Assembly- Oil filler from s/n 21566 with Hydro Vent

*C29Q 6755 Support Bracket- Oil filler pipe assembly from s/n 21566 with Hydro Vent. (no referral to a coil support but used for that purpose and not shown in diagrams.)

Interestingly, Ford generic part 21A 12257 Bracket- coil to motor, is also listed in the book and shown in diagrams.

Hope I'm not barking up the wrong tree but this may be of interest anyway.

Cheers,

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #18 31-05-22, 01:58

Old f@rts like me just soldier on with the originals, warts and all (somebody has to use up the remaining stash of original parts, right?). I just replaced the condenser on my 'diver's helmet' carrier coil and the old girl is purring like a kitten.

Dave Newcomb · #19 31-05-22, 03:00

Early Ford V8 Club International is all about flatheads and then there is Fordbarn.com were they hang out. Dave

Hanno Spoelstra · #20 31-05-22, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

here is the original bracket as used on Ford CMP's to mount it above the generator which also helps brace the long oil filler tube.

Thanks for posting this, Jacques and Tony. I think I have one of these brackets, will look it up.

The photo also clarifies the use of the tab on the oil filler pipe, I've been wondering what it was for.

A big

Tony Smith · #21 01-06-22, 01:08

Good post and pic, Jacques.

Yes, this was the thread I was talking about and your pic has illustrated perfectly. Often these sorts of valuable and informative threads get lost because they are posted in a sub-forum that is not visited by members who might have some knowledge to add. Jacques had not seen this thread because he does not own a Carrier.

Great to meet you the other night.

You are doing some great work with your vehicle, and it's pleasing to know that the information shared on this Forum has helped you achieve such high standards.