National Military History Center to auction WWII vehicles

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Each one of us can make his/her remarks about a certain lot being sold for a steal or at a ridiculous price, I am only listing some of the Commonwealth prices here for future reference:

Lot: 102 1940 Ariel W/NG Motorcycle Sold for $ 6,200

Lot: 108 1940 Norton 16H Motorcycle Sold for $ 8,000

Lot: 122 1941 Chevrolet C15 CMP Personnel Carrier Sold for $ 25,000

Lot: 126 1944 Standard 12 HP Light Utility Car Sold for $ 17,000

Lot: 139 1940 Loyd Full-Track Carrier Sold for $ 25,000

Lot: 152 1940 Morris Commercial PU 8/4 4x4 Wireless Truck Sold for $ 12,000

Lot: 154 1944 Windsor Mark I Full-Track Universal Carrier C49WC Sold for $ 30,000

Lot: 161 1942 Ford Universal Mk I, No. 3 Full-Track Carrier Sold for $ 29,000

Lot: 167 1940 Humber Hexonaut GS 6x6 Amphibious Prototype Sold for $ 47,500

Lot: 175 1943 Chevrolet C60L CMP 4x4 General Service Truck Sold for $ 16,000

Lot: 178 1941 Humber FWD Utility Car Sold for $ 33,000

Lot: 182 1942 Velocette MAF Motorcycle Sold for $ 7,500

There was somethinig to be had for each and every one's liking.....

H.

[Stew Robertson]

I guess I will stir some S***t but to my way of thinking the prices were on average, pretty damned good
There was some excellent deals and some bad ones but it sure gives a pretty good indication as to what the world market is.
There was bidders from around the world and they paid what they were willing to
Also the prices at the sale you can add at least another 22% plus shipping cost
NOW CALCULATE THE PRICE OF THE VEHICLES then take them home and restore them to running condition ( another 40 to 50 % ) unless they go into another museum.
the people have spoken and now it is a new game
"thought for the day"
Don,t you wish 35 years ago we had saved more? :

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

NOW CALCULATE THE PRICE OF THE VEHICLES then take them home and restore them to running condition ( another 40 to 50 % ) unless they go into another museum.
:

After the famous Australian Museum sale in 2006, I restored the M3A1 White Scout Car. The final figure was almost 150% times the purchase price which was also quite high.

There was not one part which had missed out on the ravages of time. For example the transfer case was full of water and was almost 1 solid piece. The only item saved was the casing. 1/2 inch nuts and bolts on the chassis had rotted through, etc. etc.

Still it is now on the road, loved by it's owner and used often. Which is far better than sitting in a museum.

regards Rick.

[chris vickery]

While we are on the theme, I have often examined the cost of doing a restoration vs buying a restored vehicle.
I suppose it come down to where one's interest and ability lay. My personal enjoyment comes from fixing them up, although it is very easy to go over budget if not careful with the initial purchase. Of course, nowadays finding an example to restore in decent shape and at a good price is a challenge.
I suppose the reason a lot of fellows start off with a "project" is that it is affordable; saying this I mean that it is a lot easier to justify or even explain your way out of a purchase for a few hundred or even a couple thousands for your project and then pick away over time (years) to get it done vs dumping tens of thousands on a restored vehicle just to drive.
I have never bought a restored vehicle but if I was going to I would expect it to be to high standards. I have bought items that were said to be "restored" that were in fact amateur restorations or more aptly "preservations".
Often times I think that guys can find a good deal by looking at someone elses project that has lost interest, time, storage space etc. This is where the deals are to be had. In these situations I have found that along with the vehicle usually comes a lot of parts and extras which sometimes are worth more than the asking price alone. I can understand now why some guys have multiple parts vehicles, a result of many package deals. In some cases, package deals turn out really well, like a treasure hunt you never know what you may find. I purchased a project several years back that came with a bunch of parts. As it turned out, most of the parts had nothing to do with that particular vehicle but in "fire sale" fashion, liquidation of these to my friends and associates paid for my purchase vehicle. I was at break even. Nice.
My advice to anyone starting out is to always understand what you are getting into to the best of your ability, ask lots of questions, look for guidance and buy a project in the best condition you can afford. In the long run you will be happier and less broke.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

There was bidders from around the world and they paid what they were willing to
Also the prices at the sale you can add at least another 22% plus shipping cost

See Auburn auction of World War II military vehicles, artifacts raises nearly $3 million for a short account on a collector from France snapping up the most expensive items. Buyers premium was a mere 15%, according to the article.

Also:

An unofficial report showed approximately $2.98 million in “hammer price” sales would go to the museum. The auction company adds a 15 percent bidder’s premium to each sale, which would bring the total sale close to $3.5 million.

This would mean the museum can pay it's unpaid bills and the rest of the vehicles will remain on display (including Rob's beloved F60B)? See Kruse WW2 Victory Museum - Auburn, IN - 2012 and Kruse WW2 Victory Museum - Auburn, IN - 2007/2009 for pictures of the museum's vehicle collection.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some more news about the buyer of a good number of the British vehicles: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/au...anted=all&_r=0

Thanks to Ron for the heads-up!

H.

Check-to-Check Combat Over Vintage War Matériel
By TUDOR VAN HAMPTON

AUBURN, Ind. — Don Coffman broke the news to his wife by telling her he had bought a German convertible.
Technically, it was not a lie: the vehicle was German, and it did have a folding top, but it was not the sporty ride she probably had in mind. Instead, it was a 1941 Volkswagen Kübelwagen Type 82, the first acquisition in a collection of war matériel begun 10 years ago by Mr. Coffman, a refrigeration service technician from Marengo, Ill.
A predecessor of sorts to the rustic Volkswagen Thing sold briefly in the United States in the 1970s, the Type 82 served as Nazi Germany’s version of the military jeep. Today, such war machines have become highly collectible.
“I bought it for $16,000,” said Mr. Coffman, 40, as he scouted for potential purchases here at a Dec. 8 auction of World War II-era vehicles from the collection of the National Military History Center. “If I went to sell it today, it would be about $60,000.”
The draw of military machines cuts across a surprisingly wide spectrum of auto enthusiasts.
“I’m geared differently,” explained Mr. Coffman, who owns German vehicles, equipment, weapons and other Axis memorabilia that he uses for battle re-enactments. “If it’s not camouflaged, I don’t want it.”
More than 350 spectators and registered bidders from 19 countries turned out in person, on the telephone and by the Internet for the no-reserve auction conducted at the museum by Auctions America. In addition to 82 World War II-era vehicles — still in their museum displays and many fitted with guns that had been made inoperable — the auction also included 100 lots of uniforms, mess kits, tools and other items.
“This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity,” Mr. Coffman said.
Just before the sale started, auctioneers reminded bidders that they would need to pass a background check and possibly obtain special permits from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives before they would be allowed to remove some of the items.
Spirited bidding erupted. Richard D. Waistell, an engineer from Berkshire, England, came looking for good examples of British vehicles to add to his collection, which includes a 1919 steam-traction engine, a 1957 Land Rover ambulance and a 1954 Bedford fire engine.
“It’s a good way of investing money because these vehicles always go up in value,” said Mr. Waistell, 69. “But it’s not done for the money, it’s done for the enjoyment.”
After carefully inspecting several lots, Mr. Waistell made winning bids on six lots: a 1940 Ariel W/NG motorcycle, 1944 GMC CCKW air-compressor truck, 1944 Standard utility car, 1940 Loyd full-track carrier, 1940 Morris truck and 1942 Velocette MAF motorcycle.
“The idea is, my sons and I will restore them, get them up and running again and exhibit them in rallies in the U.K.,” Mr. Waistell said.
The sale offered enthusiasts vehicles ranging in price from a few thousand to hundreds of thousands of dollars. For example, Mr. Waistell picked up the Ariel motorcycle for $7,130, including a 15 percent buyer’s premium, while another bidder bought a rare Daimler-Benz DB10 12-ton halftrack prime mover for $230,000. The sale included trucks and tracked machinery bearing such marques as Citroën, Diamond T, Fiat, Hotchkiss, Humber, Indian, Opel, Steyr and Zundapp.
Previewing the auction lots, Frank Depoutot, 55, a mechanic in St. Louis, paused to marvel at a 1942 Harley-Davidson 42XA, a motorcycle that was reverse-engineered from German BMWs. It was built with a horizontally opposed 2-cylinder engine rather than Harley’s typical V-twin.
“I’ve never touched one,” he said. “I’d love to get my grubby little mechanic hands on it.”
Harley made only about 1,000 examples of the bike, which was available only to the military. This one sold for $46,000.
Eric Kauffmann, 45, who operates a private war museum near Strasbourg, France, came to bid on pieces for his collection of 150 war vehicles.
“The difficult ones to find are the German and the French — even in Europe,” he said.
Finding parts for such machines can be equally challenging, hobbyists said. Randy and Shane Harnish, a father-and-son team from Bluffton, Ind., restore vintage Army jeeps and fabricate replica guns for vintage military vehicles. They spent a good deal of time inspecting a 1944 White M16 halftrack to gauge its completeness.
Still equipped with two of its original four .50 caliber M2 Browning machine guns mounted on an M45 Maxson turret, the Meat Chopper, as the antiaircraft truck was commonly called, sold for $109,250; the price handily exceeded the pre-auction estimate. Similarly, a GMC DUKW, an amphibious machine equipped with both 6-wheel drive and a propeller, soared past its estimate, selling for $111,550.
“My biggest mistake 15 years ago was not buying everything I could get my hands on,” said Randy Harnish, 64. “A nice restored World War II Jeep 15 years ago was $7,000, and today that same one would bring $20,000.”
Some collectors said they use their vehicles for educational purposes — to help veterans open up.
“We’re into historical preservation,” said Fred N. Ropkey, a charter member of the Military Vehicle Preservation Association who owns a tank museum in Crawfordsville, Ind. Veterans, he explained, “need to have an outlet for the emotions that they were not able to release for so long.”
Though Axis equipment, flags and other items are important artifacts of World War II history, displaying swastikas and similar symbols can be touchy.
“We just can’t put them up,” said Mr. Ropkey, 83, speaking of some German flags in his collection. “The ones that we will put up are signed by the crews that captured them. Then, it becomes a thing of pride.”
Officials with the Auburn museum, which opened in 2003, said they planned to apply the event’s proceeds toward a $2.9 million debt left from the construction of a museum building that never opened.
“The other building was foreclosed, and it left us with a very large mortgage,” said Tamara Hantz, the operations manager of the military museum. “That is what inspired the auction.”
The military museum’s collection was originally bought by Dean Kruse in Messancy, Belgium, in 1999 and brought to Auburn. Mr. Kruse, the former classic-car auctioneer whose annual Labor Day sale was once billed as the largest collector-car auction in the world, established a foundation, donating the collection and building a 200,000 square-foot building to display it and other vintage vehicles.
While Mr. Kruse continues as a member of the foundation’s board of directors, he no longer operates an auction business. In 2010, the Indiana Auctioneer Commission stripped him of his auction license after complaints that he had not paid consignors for sales; at the time, Mr. Kruse countered that buyers had not paid him.
He subsequently sold his 235-acre Auburn auction park, located near the military museum, to RM Auctions, based in Canada. RM used the new location to establish its United States subsidiary, Auctions America.
This sale, which raised $2.9 million, will help make room for new exhibits for the museum. Plans include eventually expanding the facility to cover other American wars, Ms. Hantz said.
“We literally have storage rooms with thousands and thousands of pieces of memorabilia and artifacts,” she said, adding that more vehicles, including a Korean War personnel carrier, were waiting in the wings. “Unfortunately I can’t go get it because I have nowhere to put it.”
Still, the thought of letting go of so many vehicles was not easy, Ms. Hantz said. The museum gave winning bidders the option to keep vehicles here on loan or to donate them back to the facility. According to Ms. Hantz, the museum would continue to display at least 31 pieces in its collection.
“It’s kind of a bittersweet day today,” Ms. Hantz said at the auction. “I think the reality will hit when they start leaving out the back door.”

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The C60L is back on the market:
http://www.milweb.net/webverts/66711/

"1941" ?!?
"Just needs a few things to take it back to factory configuration" ?!?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Commonwealth wise, there are some interesting vehicles for sale, like the Morris PU 8x4, Windsor carrier, Loyd carrier, Standard Tilly........anyone spot the F60B anywhere in the auction (it was far from complete if I rememer correctly)?

This is a well travelled Standard Utility: it originally came from the UK, then to Victory Museum in Belgium, then to USA, back to UK and now in the Netherlands.


Recently I found the Victory Museum catalogue from my visit to the museum in Arlon, Belgium in the early 1990s:
image_72192707.jpg


Also a picture of when it was on display in the Kruse WW2 Victory Museum - Auburn, IN in 2007: https://www.vgbimages.com/AFV-Photos...ictory-Museum/:
Standard-Tilly_Kruse-WW2-Victory-Museum_Auburn-IN- USA_2007-2009.jpg


When it was auctioned in 2012: https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/m...p-light/734468.
It was bought by Richard D. Waistell and bought back to Berkshire, England:
1944 Standard 12 HP Light_RM-auctions_2012.jpg


It came back on the market in 2020 and was then sold to a Dutch collector.
As it stands today undergoing maintenance at Martin IJdo's Historic Engineering:
131894568_4261246323902210_7945466798380147998_o.jpg