Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Thanks for the photo, Jacques. I'll save that one, if it's OK with you!

No problems Tony, One picture worth a thousand words when dealing with suppliers.

Have included another one for you here of the front end of the muffler showing the 6 o'clock position of the inlet.

Noted in your later post removal of steering tie rod end bolt.
Manual is right and it does work. A good whack on the side of the part holding the tapered pin should remove it.

All tapered parts respond to this method including car ball joints. Whacking the threaded end, even if protected, usually accomplishes nothing.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Look at the area just left of the diff housing. You can just see the brake line 'T' connector. What I want to know is what the hell is that long flat rod sticking out from it??? It is attached by the same bolt that holds the 'T' to the diff housing, and I have NO idea what, if anything, it is there for. Any ideas? If it's not supposed to be there, I would love to remove the bloody thing, as it poses a safety hazard to my shins and ankles.

Tony,

I'd say it is just a add-on by someone to try to keep the steering ends from turning.

Maybe the diff was off a home made crane setup using two front ends as was sometimes done. That rod would help to keep the wheels in the straight ahead position if the owner found he didn't want to look after two steering wheels while using the crane.

Turf it- it's not required or original!

Cheers,

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Turf it- it's not required or original!

Good, consider it gone!

Thanks,

[Private_collector]

It's off! The damn thing came away just as Jacques said. First couple of beltings did nothing on passenger side, so I started clouting the driver side, and it just fell out. No fuss, no swearing. Went back to passenger side, and another whack got it out too.

Also went to the sandblasters and retrieved the pintle spring, bumper brackets, pintle hook thingy and the backing plate that it bolts to. These will get painted Saturday, then fit to place Sunday.

Rear axle U bolts not yet had threads re-cut, but i'm sure they will get around to it soon...ish. A quick measure shows the threads will need to be cut another 50mm to fit my rear spring bundles (ones without the HD spring set).


Now a slightly diffferent tac. I have noticed most Ford front bumpers (as above) are attached by one bracket on driver side, and a Y bracket on passenger. I have a second bracket on the Organ Donor that goes on driver side. Looks to be original, and goes on the inner side of chassis behind the steering box bracket. I meant to get it off and photograph it last weekend, but just forgot.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

I have a second bracket on the Organ Donor that goes on driver side. Looks to be original, and goes on the inner side of chassis behind the steering box bracket.

It's definitely original Tony, but for some reason it wasn't always fitted. It seems to have been omitted from many early production Fords, including several of my own 1942 trucks. There's no question of them having been removed subsequently, as the chassis bolts are too short to allow fitment in the first place. However in every case the main RH bracket is drilled to accommodate the second bracket, which leads me to wonder if it was a design change, followed by a delay in supply of the new part.

Interestingly it's present on my two FGT chassis, which would also have been 1942 production. This leads me to wonder if it was initially designed for winch trucks, ie. to brace the bumper against sideways displacement caused by cable force through the front rollers. Perhaps this was found to be a problem when winching sideways.

I happen to have a particular interest in bumper brackets, stemming from an incident 40 years ago in my first blitz. I'm sure Keith will recall the altercation with a tree that left the bumper bar rubbing on the RH tyre during turns. This was the result of an incomplete RH bumper assy - one of the many parts missing off this blitz when it was rushed into service!

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

This was the result of an incomplete RH bumper assy - one of the many parts missing off this blitz when it was rushed into service!

Correction - photos reveal it wasn't so much a lack of RH bumper bracket, but a lack of front crossmember to bolt it onto! This would have left the small RH piece to take the full force when challenged by the tree.

[Keith Webb]

Oh, I remember it well! I was wondering what it would feel like to smash my face into the top of the windscreen, but fortunately the impact wasn't that great.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Oh, I remember it well! I was wondering what it would feel like to smash my face into the top of the windscreen, but fortunately the impact wasn't that great.

Yes, we really could have used some seat belts that day! Fortunately there were plenty of saplings to slow us down a bit before finally hitting the tree. I think this photo Keith took may show part of the scene.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Yes, we really could have used some seat belts that day! Fortunately there were plenty of saplings to slow us down a bit before finally hitting the tree. I think this photo Keith took may show part of the scene.

Yes, that was part of it - I can remember the sense of triumph trying to push the back across as the wheels spun so you could escape the tree. It would have been a long walk out.

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Yes, that was part of it - I can remember the sense of triumph trying to push the back across as the wheels spun so you could escape the tree. It would have been a long walk out.

Firstly: Keith & Tony.......You pair of knockabouts. Couldn't be described a 'wreckless' though.

CMP brake shoes. I'm looking (and bidding, take note) at an auction on ebay for a quantity of Ford CMP brake shoes. The listing states "WW2 Military Ford Blitz Brake Shoes - full set", but to me they all look to be the same size and width. That said, I have not yet taken the front wheel hubs off, and to date, NEVER seen a Ford front brake shoe. I was expecting there to be a visible size difference in width at least.

The auction interests me because I know for a fact that there are at least two brake shoes missing from my front brakes. Wheel cylinders were taken off at some point. Not by me! Presumably due to pads sticking to the hub and making pushing the vehicle around very difficult. With cylinders off, the shoes fall together.....no more pad to hub problems.

If the front and rear brake pads are identical (that's my question, by the way), I can use pads from my spare rear axle instead of hunting for front ones.

Still wouldn't mind the ebay ones. Would be handy to get a set relined as spares for the future.

[hrpearce]

Answer to your question is on page U-9 in MB-F1.
It all depends on what axles you have.

[Keith Webb]

Tony, by the look of the shoes in your pics they are all the width for front brake drums as fitted to axles with the 4 7/8" steering ends which were used on 15cwt and early CMP front axles. They won't fit the rear at all. Vehicles with 6" steering ends had the wider drums.

If you look at your brake drums, if the front are as wide as the rear then these will be of no use to you at all.

[Jacques Reed]

Another thing to consider is what are the linings made from?

I have a NOS set of shoes and linings which have a distinctive blue/green hue to them and was told by a brake shop they contain asbestos of the worst kind.
You know- Midnight Oil's "Blue Sky Mining"

I replaced all mine with modern asbestos free linings and have left the blue/green ones in permanent storage and will probably never use them. I am even loathe to put them on Ebay because of what they may contain. I don't want to suck up asbestos dust in years to come or would wish anyone else to do so on something I sold them.

So much WW2 stuff contains asbestos so best to check.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Posted here are two photos.

They show a 2" wide front brake shoes as used only on F15, F15A, and F30 CMP vehicles and the 3 1/2" wide rear brake shoes which appear to be used on all other models front and rear according to MB-F1 U-9. Check section however for specifics. The F15 and F15A rear shoes in addition have a pin pressed into the shoes at the top for the hand brake actuating lever.

Note the 2' wide front one is shod with a modern non-asbestos brake lining, grey in colour.
The 3 1/2" wide rear one is a NOS I referred to previously with the greenish/blue coloured lining.

The person who informed me it contains asbestos was running a truck brake business for 40 years and just recently closed shop so I believe he knows his brakes.

Cheers,

[Keith Webb]

Nicely illustrated Jacques. That green colour is pretty.

Incidentally (I know you probably don't need any now) I have some NOS handbrake cables for the F15A as well as the little rubber accordion boots for them.

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Keith,

Yes they are pretty, pretty hazardous to health if ground down to dust!

Jokes aside, I think I may drill out the rivets on the linings keeping everything wet as I do to prevent any airborne dust. Once the linings are off and the shoes are washed down they should be safe from contamination.

So Tony if you need them give me a shout. I have two NOS, and 2 VG used 3 1/2" wide shoes. They are no good to me as they do not have the pins for the handbrake lever as used on my F15A. I have a correct spare set anyway.
And thanks Keith I have the handbrake cables, boots and a spare set too.

[Private_collector]

Hi Guys,

And thanks to all, for the information.

My front brake hubs are most definately narrower than the rear, which poses more questions than answers. My chassis was 'reduced' to 115", so it must have been longer, correct? If it WAS a longer chassis, and assuming the writing under the hood lid which was "60L/1942", is original (and I believe it was, based on script and condition of writing) then my front axle should not be the F15/F15A/F30 type?!? It is though. Can you confirm I am right or wrong from the following two photographs, please.


Jacques, thanks for the offer, but I have a second set of 3 1/2" on my spare rear axle assembly. I'm confident the front ones will be 2", though not fully understanding WHY they are. Some axle swap in the past, most likely.

Now i'm even MORE keen to get those on ebay. That's a whole lot of front pads for me to choose best of, and send another set away for relining. Some of the auction ones seem to be colour suggesting previous relining, and others obviously original, and evil! That said, I agree with Jacques, that there are safe ways to remove, and dispose of, asbestos linings.

I recall the exact day I was enlightened to the dangers of asbestos. It was a Sunday, and 60 Minutes (a current affairs show, for all you foreign folk) ran a story about a number of people who were dying of asbestosis and mesothelioma. Earlier that day I had just finished removing inside walls of a house we were renovating. Guess what the walls were made of! While I watched the 60 Minutes story, the asbestos wall lining was sitting in a shattered pile in back yard, ready to be carted away. We made a good show of breaking the chunks into small pieces, so it would fit in the back of the car. There must have been asbestos dust EVERYWHERE that day. No idea it was of any concern until that evening. My Father had asbestos related lung damage, which he never knew about, and was only discovered by CXR the day he passed-away. He had been a builder for over 30 years......right through the 50s, 60s and 70s, which were of course the days when asbestos health problems were not known about, at least by general population.

I curse you James Hardie!

[Private_collector]

Bought the remainder of bolts needed to finish assembly and installation of pintle. Some parts yet to be painted. Thats tomorrow job #1.

Bumper brackets are also to be painted, thats tomorrow job #2.

The new wiring for inspection light arrived wednesday, and I finished reassembly last night. I managed to knock a few bits of paint off, while man-handling to 'encourage' two parts to come together, so it will need another lick of paint tomorrow as well.......job #3!

The last pair of Ford engine mounts arrived yesterday. These were needed for the cab floor front mounting positions. I put those through the brackets this afternoon, primarily so I don't lose them. Never did find the two bushes for for'd of front spring sets. They're here somewhere..........I think!?!?

Currently searching internet for 3/4 UNF csatle nuts to go on tie rod ends. Original ones are OK, but not good enough to be re-used.

Finally, I have found this set of radiator hoses for sale.

Are these the style that were original? I have two conflicting images in two manuals, showing this type in one and a solid metal pipe style in other. Grrrrr!

[Keith Webb]

To explain a little more about the front ends, the 6" steering ends were not introduced until well into cab 13 production, so all the earlier 3 ton trucks had the light front end and steering box.
So this configuration is probably correct for your truck.

[Private_collector]

Cheers Keith, I will get some sleep tonight after all.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

I have found this set of radiator hoses for sale. Are these the style that were original? I have two conflicting images in two manuals, showing this type in one and a solid metal pipe style in other.

I've always assumed the metal pipe was used on all CMPs, as a means to save rubber during the war, and that any full-length rubber hoses found on CMPs are post-war replacement parts, like those seen in pic 1 (purchased 1973).

I've noticed the Army retained the metal pipe in post war years. They're still present on my FGTs which would have been disposed of in the '60s.

I'm planning to use metal pipes on mine because they look more genuine to me, but unless someone knows of a source I shall have to get some made up. They need to be mandrel bent, as opposed to press bending done by exhaust shops, which squashes the inside of the bend (looks wrong and would probably cause problems fitting hose clamps). Some specialist exhaust shops can do mandrel bending to maximize gas flow (eg. for turbos) and various engineering works, eg. bullbar manufacturers. I made enquiries recently and was quoted around $200 set up cost, plus material and labour at around $20 per unit. For the moment I've just used straight exhaust pipe with suitable rubber sections (two bends from a Falcon radiator hose) as seen in pic 2.

Perhaps I'm wrong Tony, ie. full-length rubber WAS used on some CMPs. However I much prefer the look of the metal ones myself. The two small rubber sections in your pic look right, ie. rough surface texture and spiral moulding marks. Not sure about the red stripe though. Hose clamps look right, ie. pre-worm drive type.

I guess it depends how obsessive you are about appearance! I'd be interested to know what others have used.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Jacques, thanks for the offer, but I have a second set of 3 1/2" on my spare rear axle assembly.

No worries,

If anyone else out there wants them please contact me. They are no good to me without the F15A handbrake lever pins. I will very carefully remove the asbestos linings, 2 x NOS, and 2 x used giving you a full set of bare rear shoes to reline for spares. The used shoes are very clean and free of rust.

Cheers,

[Private_collector]

Tony: I was giving serious consideration to sourcing metal tube radiator pipes UNTIL you mentioned the price! Bugger me, that's the cost of my first car....ish. Have a look at this s/s kit from Macs:

http://macsautoparts.com/early-v8-fo...0R3CHL1140489/

It's polished within an inch of it's life, but nothing a sandblaster wouldn't remove ASAP. The kit is for 42-48, and may be a better option than getting some made?

Todays debarcle
Thanks to bad weather, today was a let down. No painting could be done. Rained off & on all bloody day, with not even a patch of clear sky to apply a quick couple of coats and rush the parts inside again.......while laughing maniacally They will wait until better opportunity presents.

Instead, I worked on the front mudflaps, and now have them ready for the upholsterers. The guys had a great & clever way to ensure the canvas layer over the upper plate stays in place and doesn't twist while tightening bolts to mudguard. Simple really, make all the holes a tight fit for an eyelet (think thats what it's called) to be tapped into place once the canvas is finished. In the above photo, you can see one of the eyelets that will be used, along with the two original door check-straps. I'm hoping the upholsterers will be able to find a good substitute for these hard, old ones.

Between rain squawls, I got a little further with the front end disassembly.

Took driver side hub off. Easy enough! Took out the brake shoes. Easy enough! Notice my brake shoes don't have the lining along the entire length of the shoe? Why is that?!?! The ebay ones are getting more and more attractive.

I REALLY wasn't expecting the the major problem that I came across next.

Some berk has welded the brake backing plate to the steering body, in two places! Great welding. They really should be congratulated for that. Pity they chose to showcase their abilities on MY TRUCK! This discovery puts a HUGE barrier to the way I intended to work on these parts. I really can't sandblast backing plate safely while it is still attached to the other part. And if I don't get it off, painting the two parts together will be a nightmare too. To remove the 2x welds, I will need to buy a special air tool that can take burr bits, and spend christ knows how long removing the weld. The good news is that wheel bearing and cup look to be OK, and may not require replacing. Guess i'll sleep on the weld issue.

Finally, I got to prepare the pintle parts for paint, and made a trial fit to make sure the bolts would sit correctly. After removing a little metal on the spring set where pintle bolts pass by, everything lines up well.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Tony:

Took driver side hub off. Easy enough! Took out the brake shoes. Easy enough! Notice my brake shoes don't have the lining along the entire length of the shoe? Why is that?!?! The ebay ones are getting more and more attractive.

Tony,

On almost all drum brakes with the wheel cylinder at the top the leading (front) shoe always has a larger lining on it. The trailing (rear) shoe always has a smaller lining on it. The front shoe provides most of the braking force when going forward. The drag between the drum and linings tends to apply more force to the front shoe and less to the rear shoe when going forward.
In reverse, less speed is achieved which means less braking force is required so the rear shoe has a smaller lining. If the linings were the same area as the front ones you would get "reverse whiplash" when you touched the brakes driving in reverse.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

As per attached photos the name "Raybestos" on the inside of the linings says it all. It can also be seen faintly in the genuine Ford lining

I decided to remove the linings as per a previous post before I moved them on.
A 34 C degree day is not the best time to be wearing a spray painting mask while doing this but if I stick them back in storage they will remain there for another few years until I get a roundtuit.

Interestingly the used linings which appear grey in colour are the ones shown here so they don't have to be green to contain asbestos.

Cheers,

[Private_collector]

Don't they look enormous by themselves.

A friend of mine who passed away some months ago, had a great stack of these in a heap under his house. All unused, and perfect in every way, with exception of being asbestos.

Raybestos are the brand of my wheel cylinders. As with most things, cheaper to buy from other side of the planet, as opposed to local suppliers.

I was fortunate enough to get a piece of NOS door-check strap, to replace my hard old originals.

[Keith Webb]

Some berk has welded the brake backing plate to the steering body, in two places! Great welding.

You may find that berk was a Ford Canada factory welder, or an army one. I'm not sure whether others have found this but a lot of the 4 7/8" front ends I have seen had the backing plates welded just like this. Fortunately my FGT plates have not been welded. Perhaps there is some information in a service bulletin somewhere.

[Private_collector]

Why would they do that?? How does it benefit? I don't get it!
The bolts were there, so it's not that they couldn't use them or stripped any threads. I did a quick look, but I didn't see the same weld on the other side. I will go through the service bulletins book to see what I can find out.

The mud flap frames are now with the upholsterers, and I may have them back by the weekend. I will need them back fast......so they can sit on my shelf for months . I won't have a use for them until the cab is on the truck and guards are attached. Bearing in mind the engine, gearbox and transfer case will be finished before this happens, it may be some time yet.

Last thing I did yesterday was to cut some lengths of metal bar, to be bent into new spring set brackets/clamps. They went to the engineers this afternoon. Apparently their metal folder can't handle the shape they will need to be bent to (54mm base, with 75mm height to each side) because the two folds are so close together. They will have to use oxy-acetyline torch to heat and bend by hand. Just like the old days, except no forge involved.

This is the piece of check-strap material I was given today. It's wider than the original, and very slightly thiner profile, but I don't care. Exact match for original material has eluded me entirely so far. The thicker strap may actually allow me to add a third hole to the securing points on door & cab frame. If I do that, I will have to make fresh securing plates.

Rains are back again. The flooding has already started. As long as it is all gone by next saturday, I won't mind. Scuttlebut has it that we may get a further 100-300mm rain in next 24hrs. Excellent! Guess it's better than getting whacked by a meteor . Oh, those Russians; As Boney-M would say!

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Tony: I was giving serious consideration to sourcing metal tube radiator pipes UNTIL you mentioned the price!

Yes, you'd need to order 20 units to spread the set-up cost, that would bring the unit price down to around $30. I haven't shopped around though so there may be cheaper options.

Some time ago there was a NOS pipe on ebay, with a Buy it Now price of AUD 183 plus shipping from the US!! It kept recycling on my watched items list for about a year until I finally had to delete it!

I had a look at the Macs dress kit at a nearby hot rod shop a while back. It's designed to fit under car bonnets so the bends are close to 90 degrees, as opposed to about 45 degrees on CMP pipes. It would probably fit but it might kink the rubber section.

I'm very interested to know what pipes have been used on other CMP restos. Or does everybody just use full length rubber hose...?

[Private_collector]

Shame about the Macs ones.

I'll just bide my time and see what shows up.

I won those brake shoes on ebay too, by the way.
Sellers sound like very nice folk, and have restored a F15A of their own.

Today is the first time I was flooded OUT from home.
Major piddle down in the early afternoon lead to flash flooding, and although I left work as soon as I found out about the rising waters, we didn't get home in time and had to sit a two flooded causeways while the waters went down again. First one, then the other. Despite all the pleading and begging of emergency services, there are soooo many people who take the risk still.