Staghound identity found!

[marco]

Hello all,

At last, after years of searching, I had the luck to find the original wartime registration number from my Staghound and the unit using it!
I already knew some particular facts and details from the car pointing in a certain direction but never could make that last step...
Now, a good quality photo from the Dutch National Archives made during the Canadian Army parade on 28th June 1945 in Amsterdam proved to be the lucky shot I was hoping for.
The car could be identified as a 12th Manitoba Dragoons vehicle serving with C-squadron 12th Troop 2nd Car (also known as “Sergeants Car”).
Combined with another photo in my archive, the War Department census number could be identified as F215633.

I would like to find more information about this particular car F215633 so if anyone has additional information like photo’s or other information, I would be very happy to learn about it.

The book “XII Manitoba Dragoons: a tribute” by Bruce Tascona, has a photo from all the men in 12th Troop in the U.K. in 1943 but I would like to find the names from the crew of my Staghound.
I contacted the museum in Brandon, Manitoba, hope they can be of help.

With best regards,

Marco

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hi Marco,

Congratulations are in order! This is always nice to know about your vehicle. Considering the number of vehicles produced in those days it is a needle in a haystack to find your own vehicle in a period photo.

Hopefully you can find the names of the crew and maybe even get in touch if they are still among us mortals. Best of luck on your search.

Cheers,

[David Dunlop]

Hello Marco.

Great to learn a little piece of local Manitoba Regimental History is still alive and well in your hands. My wife's father and all of his brothers served in that Regiment and fortunately all made it back home.

You might want to keep an eye out for a copy of the Regimental Diary which the surviving members of the Regiment had reprinted for a reunion here in Winnipeg back in the late 1980's. It has a complete personnel roster with wartime home addresses, as well as an inventory of all the vehicles they lost from D-Day to the end of the war. I believe all their equipment was parked at Deelen before they came home.

Keep us up to date!


David

[tankbarrell]

Marco,

Albert Jan told me last night, I know you have been after this information for a long time so well done!

I have not forgotten about your Grizzly question..... (well I had until now! )

[Alex van de Wetering]

Awesome! So.....now you have enough time to prepare the Staghound for a Then and now shot on June 28th 2015!

Alex

[marco]

In the meantime I found out that the Sergeant on my Staghound was Sgt. Clifford N. Schaldemose.

Marco

[maple_leaf_eh]

There are 4 residential telephone listing for Schaldemose in British Columbia, one in Alberta and a sixth person in Falcon Lake, Manitoba. It is not much of a stretch to think this last person might recognize the name of Clifford Schaldemose.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Probably not of interest to anyone but here is the list of census numbers for Canadian Stags in 21 Army Group.

Whooppeeee! My 1500th post!

[marco]

From Manitoba Dragoon veterans I received the information that, after the war, Sgt Schaldemose worked in the Burnaby area and retired in Victoria.
He had 3 daughters and passed away in the 1990's.

In 1944, 12MD started a scrapbook.
The attachment comes from this scrapbook and is written by 12th Troop.
So I guess either Tpr Pertrynko or Tpr Siegfried was the gunner on F215633.

Clive: Seeing my own Stag census number on it, the list is certainly worth something for me!
Am I correct that the name of the city of "Grave" is written above the date in the lower right corner?
Thanks for taking the time to post it!


Marco

[Stan Leschert]

If you know where he was laid to rest, we can try to get a local to take a picure of his marker. I only go to that area once a year,but we do have friends!

[marco]

Found attached photo on a historical website from the city of Dreumel, Holland.

Source: http://www.tremele.nl/english/regime...20Regiment.htm

This photo was taken at the same time&location (February or March 1945 in Dreumel, Holland) as the one in the first post.
The men sitting on the Stag are (starting at the left):
1) Capt. J.C. Calcutt, 2nd in command from 12MD C-Squadron.
2) Lt H.A. Stephens, Westminster Regiment.
3)Tpr. A.R. Litchfield, 12MD.
4)Tpr. W.J. Flanagan, 12th Troop, 12MD C-squadron.

Capt. Calcutt wouldn't have been on the car but Tprs Flanagan and Litchfield could have been crew members.

Marco

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by marco

...
The car could be identified as a 12th Manitoba Dragoons vehicle serving with C-squadron 12th Troop 2nd Car (also known as “Sergeants Car”).

...

Marco

Some things stay in the military vocabulary. A few years ago I had a conversation with a serving soldier in the PPCLI. He used the term, 'car' for his LAVIII armoured personnel carrier.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Marco,

That is great news, congrats!

I am interested to learn more about the "particular facts and details from the car pointing in a certain direction" as every now and collectors as me how they can find out the identity and history of a particular vehicle.

Regards,
Hanno

[marco]

Thanks Hanno!

It would be very difficult to tell in general what to do to find a vehicle identity and history.
However, there are some possibilities to find a vehicle registration number.

When starting a vehicle restoration, always take the time to look carefully for any markings which might be there under several layers of paint.
My first Dodge WC51 still had the original USA registration number on the bonnet.
Once the sandblaster has done its job, it is too late...

A friend once found a wartime dated “work order” inside a door panel from his Diamond-T.
Although this car had been restored and had been in several different collectors hands, nobody ever found that document.
On this “work order” there were the (matching) chassis number and the original USA registration number.

In Bovington and in the Imperial War Museum they have vehicle “key cards” which might give certain details like chassis numbers and war department census numbers from a particular vehicle.
I do not know exactly which information is on those cards, maybe Adrian can shine a light in this.

Another (theoretical) possibility would be to find the war department shipping document.
I have a copy from such a document for 2 Lend Lease M4A2 Sherman tanks, showing the Ordnance serial numbers, the USA registration numbers and the British T-census numbers as well.
Although there must have been several copies around (sender, transport company, receiver), I do not think many of such documents have survived.

For certain military vehicles, there is a relation between the Ordnance serial number and the USA registration number, the manufacturers serial number and the USA registration number or the chassis number and the USA registration number.
So if you know the ordnance serial or the chassis serial number, you might find the original USA registration number.
On armored vehicles, the ordnance serial number is stamped in the armor and can be found most of the times.
The best thing to do in this case is to contact specialists on that particular vehicle.

When a USA registration number or British census number has been found, the best thing you can hope for is finding a wartime photo with your vehicle on it, showing unit markings.
I do not know of the existence of lists with registration numbers
from “in service” vehicles kept by using units.

In my particular case, it went like this.
When I started restoring the Staghound (ex-Dutch Army) in 1995, I also became a regular visitor at the Cavalry museum in Amersfoort.
Mainly to take measurements from the museums Staghound (all the sheet metal parts and the engine decks on mine were gone), but also to have a chat.
A retired Cavalry officer who was involved in “vehicle matters” directly after WWII, told me that the Dutch army received all Manitoba Dragoon Staghounds (about 72 pieces) and some from other Canadian units, mostly RCD and the 17th Duke of York’s Royal Canadian Hussars.
In total, Dutch army received 108 Staghounds from Canadian stock.

Before sailing to France on 7th and 8th July 1944, all Manitoba Dragoon Staghounds were modified (March 1944) with the “4-Ft wading equipment” according to Chilwell Catalogue 72/533, (first edition January 1944).
This was a major modification which took several days to carry out, and involved work like cutting and welding to the hull.
Because of the work involved, only Staghounds actually assigned to a fighting unit were modified.
The work was done by the 12MD themselves assisted by some specialists
like welders.
My Staghound has all the modifications indicating that this wading equipment has been installed.
I have never seen a RCD Staghound with the same 4 ft wading equipment (please correct me if I am wrong).
So things started to point in the Manitoba Dragoons direction and I started to search for wartime photo’s from this regiment.

Within 12MD, in every fighting troop (2 Staghounds, 2 Ford Lynx Scoutcars) there was one set of the “12ft No9 trackways” .
These were carried by the 2nd car (known as “Sergeants Car”).
The RCD used these trackways also.
To support the trackways sometimes a cross-bar was welded on top of the armor plate above the drivers and co-drivers heads.
I say sometimes because there were also crews who just strapped the trackways on their car with chains and leather straps.
The attached photo’s show the crossbar with and without the trackways.
My car still has the welds once connecting the crossbar to the hull.
Supposed mine was a 12MD vehicle, the search has now been narrowed to about 20 possible vehicles.

Although I knew the direction in which to search, identifying my Staghound remains a piece of (very) good luck when I found the photo from the Dutch National Archives.
The original photo is very detailed and it is possible to compare welding details, casting irregularities and some other details with the details on my car.
I can tell you I nearly went ballistic finding out that it was a 100% match!
You can even see the welds from the crossbar (visible just in front of the siren).

Marco

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by marco

I have a copy from such a document for 2 Lend Lease M4A2 Sherman tanks, showing the Ordnance serial numbers, the USA registration numbers and the British T-census numbers as well.
Although there must have been several copies around (sender, transport company, receiver), I do not think many of such documents have survived.

When a USA registration number or British census number has been found, the best thing you can hope for is finding a wartime photo with your vehicle on it, showing unit markings.
I do not know of the existence of lists with registration numbers
from “in service” vehicles kept by using units.


Marco

Hi Marco,

As a collector of British census numbers and WWII Allied vehicle names is there any chance you could post those Sherman census numbers?

cheers

Kevin