Morris Y Van find

Lang · #1 25-05-13, 04:57

Here is the pick-up of the Morris "Y" 10cwt van.

Very complete. Engine turns over freely and gears engage freely.

Main job is a complete rework of the wood frame but all the bits are there for patterns.

Request for the Australians: I need 4 X 18 inch Morris wheels any leads gratefully received.

Mike, here is the data detail. Unfortunately the right side of the plate is gone.

Type 12/4
Car No. SY/TW 20??
Engine No. 70283

If anyone has any info at all about the 1500cc motor, vehicle performance etc it would be good as I am thinking about leaving the Dodge Carryall behind and using the Morris on the Istanbul to Normandy trip next year. They may as well have been never made as far as Australia is concerned - all my searching has only discovered one in Sydney. Plenty of Morris "Z" utes and vans but they were much smaller both in capacity and engine size.

Lang

gordon · #2 25-05-13, 07:58

At least you have one original so you can identify them positively. I don't think I've ever seen one of those vans round here.

Are those side windows original, or at least contemporary?

Lang · #3 25-05-13, 10:09

Getting more info.

The owner, aged 60, can remember this vehicle sitting in his older sister's yard in the late 50's looking "exactly the same condition as now"

He has done some research for me and says it was "bought from an army auction right after the war". It was used by a family as their car and they are the ones who put the windows in. They are certainly not an amateur modification and look very professionally done. In the late 40's it was used commercially as a baker's van before being sold to the current family who only used it for a "few years" before parking and forgetting it.

Photo of the Ford 10 which is an almost exact clone of the Morris (or vice versa) right down to the off-set engine. It shows this style of window was used during the period.

Lang

gordon · #4 25-05-13, 10:14

I wonder if there was any wheel interchangeability with other contemporary makes, like the Ford ?

Might end up getting in four wheels from four different continents, but as long as you get there. It's not like not having the wheels is going to slow you down on the rest of it. I'm sure if any came up for sale someone in MLU-land would be willing to buy and post them on.

Richard Farrant · #5 25-05-13, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lang

Photo of the Ford 10 which is an almost exact clone of the Morris (or vice versa) right down to the off-set engine. It shows this style of window was used during the period.

Hi Lang,
It is interesting to see the Ford photo, because I believe that is a Martin Walter Utilicon conversion (ie a personnel carrier). This company was in Folkestone, Kent and converted a huge number of van conversions over many years, largely on Bedfords latterly.

Here is a link to another 12/4 van in Australia and looking at the engine number, is close to yours, pity your chassis number is not complete. It has the Martin Walter conversion, side windows slightly different, but would be interesting to see if the rear floor looks the same on yours. This one was apparently bought new.
http://www.svvs.org/Utilevan.shtml

I remember as a kid, the owner of the village shop had one of these van with windows in, and the Royal Mail used them as well. Still a few around and I was aghast recently when I saw one made in to a "hot rod", bet it did not have the wheezing side valve in it though !

regards, Richard

Richard Farrant · #6 25-05-13, 10:33

Hi Lang,
Another website with a link to the owner of the other 12/4 van in Australia:
http://www.iamo.org.uk/Restorations/...20Utilevan.htm

regards, Richard

Lang · #7 25-05-13, 10:45

Gordon,

I certainly would look at wheels from anywhere. 16" are readily available but 18"?

Richard,

Trying to track down the Australian Morris Y owner, If his details are correct it puts the whole story from my owner in doubt as the dates can't be reconciled.

Lang

Richard Farrant · #8 25-05-13, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lang

Richard,

Trying to track down the Australian Morris Y owner,

Lang

Lang,
Here is the owners email from my second link, imoretonAToptusnet.com.au ( remove AT and insert @)

Mike Cecil · #9 25-05-13, 19:16

Lang,

Thanks for the data, but I have been unable to equate it with the very limited references I have to Morris vans in military service in Australia. Nevertheless, the records show some interesting things in the light of your find, and the posts above.

The USAFIA returned a Morris 'Light English Utility' in Sydney for disposal by the CDC in late 1944. It had 17,660 miles on the clock. US Army registration number was USA-U-27167. No engine or chassis number given.

The RAN list three possibles, all listed as still in service in the post-war period (late 1940s). They were operated from HMAS Harmon and the Belconnen Wireless Station, both near Canberra (The big wireless station @ Belconnen was for all international government messaging during and post-war. Now defunct and last I heard, awaiting dismantling of the huge tower). RAN registrations were:

RAN 58259 ... eng number 65932)
RAN 58258 ... eng number 66080) These appear to be in a wartime group.
RAN 60191 ... eng number NPSC14042. This appears to be post-war: it's in a group that includes Holdens, etc.

The first two, by coincidence, are described as 'Utilivans' which now means a lot more to me than when I first saw the term, thanks to these posts. The last is described as a 'Van'. The first two engine numbers are interesting in the light of yours (70203) which might indicate the RAN ones were earlier production? - doubtless our English friends with greater knowledge of Morris vehicle engine numbers can comment on that.

IF the RAN ones were wartime, they would have been painted in KG3 as per the camouflage regulations, but possibly re-painted post war in either dark blue or seagrey. If similar vehicles had been disposed of by the RAN at war's end, then most likely in KG3 paint.

HOWEVER, the RAN had an alarming propensity to re-issue registrations and migrate the plates to different vehicles once the original was disposed of. So, while it appears that these (above) are wartime registrations, this is not certain. Maybe the approx. production year can be ascertained from the engine numbers? Also, I don't have anywhere near a complete list of RAN registrations, so they may have had others I have not found a record of as yet (and which were disposed of at war's end?).

Something else to consider - and this is just theorizing - I would expect that, if the Morris is wartime, then its production year should be pre-1942, rather than 1942 or later, as imports from the UK were restricted during the 1940-41 period (but still possible to import commercial type goods), then severely restricted from late 1941 onwards, with virtually no civilian MVs imported until the end of the war. I cannot see a few Morris vans being high on the governments import agenda during the 1942-1945 period, especially when there was an over-abundance of modified conventional vehicles already 'on the books'.

The other (remote?) possibility is that these were Refugee Cargo, arriving in Oz in late 41/early 42, having been diverted while en route to English forces in Malaya, etc. They would have to be pre-42 build to be considered for that scenario.

Hope this helps.

Mike C

Tim Lovelock · #10 27-05-13, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lang

Here is the pick-up of the Morris "Y" 10cwt van.

Very complete. Engine turns over freely and gears engage freely.

Main job is a complete rework of the wood frame but all the bits are there for patterns.

Request for the Australians: I need 4 X 18 inch Morris wheels any leads gratefully received.

Mike, here is the data detail. Unfortunately the right side of the plate is gone.

Type 12/4
Car No. SY/TW 20??
Engine No. 70283

If anyone has any info at all about the 1500cc motor, vehicle performance etc it would be good as I am thinking about leaving the Dodge Carryall behind and using the Morris on the Istanbul to Normandy trip next year. They may as well have been never made as far as Australia is concerned - all my searching has only discovered one in Sydney. Plenty of Morris "Z" utes and vans but they were much smaller both in capacity and engine size.

Lang

Hi Lang, have a couple of pics of 17 1/2" rims that look similar. Having difficulty putting up pics. SMS me 0414645853 l'll send pics to you. If they are what you want, I'll ask my friend if he will part with them. Cheers Tim

Lang · #11 27-05-13, 04:28

Tim,

Here is the 18 inch Morris wheel - I need 4.

Lang

Tim Lovelock · #12 28-05-13, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lang

Tim,

Here is the 18 inch Morris wheel - I need 4.

Lang

Yup, the ones I know of are different alright!!

Alex van de Wetering · #13 28-05-13, 00:46

Very nice find Lang! Would love to see this in Normandy, next year.

Just saw a Morris wheel today, but even though it was similar in looks it had five studs in stead of six! Morris 10 according to the seller (?)

Alex

Lang · #14 28-05-13, 01:57

Alex,

Seriously considering the Morris for Normandy. It has 2 metres behind the driver's seat so could be set up with a double bed with boxes underneath.

Before launching into a full restoration, I urgently need to find someone who owns one, or has driven one to see what speed they do. We have to cover 6,000km on the trip to Normandy and if 65kph is flat out it will be no good and won't keep up with the jeeps and Dodges. It would be very easy to put a small Toyota engine with 5 speed overdrive box in it but I really want to keep it original.

Lang

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #15 30-05-13, 11:46

Hi Lang - just to let you know I am burning and creating new contacts in an effort to obtain your rims and other information. Once I collate everything I will give you all the details, and hopefully some rims.

Bob

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #16 17-06-13, 05:42

Hi Lang - I have exhausted all my contacts and new leads but without any success. I guess you will have to go with what you have. In the mean time these wheels are on my watch list.

Bob

Lang · #17 17-06-13, 06:58

Bob,

Thanks for your efforts. The 16 inch will be just fine for a driver. If I spend $25,000 on it for my entry at Pebble Beach I will get back in touch.

Lang