Chevrolet 1533X2 30-cwt trucks

[paul Lincoln]

Tony,
LRDG Chevs came from a batch of 200 vehicles to replace their Fords in March '42. When they lost many of them in Sept '42 they had to get the old Fords out of retirement as the replacements were lost at sea. Vehicles seen in photos with wooden bodies were 1311 15cwt trucks used by patrol commanders, medics etc. The 1533 body was an all steel ammo body made by Gotfriedson, or some very similar name. no time to confirm at present.
I can get you info on the converterd Chev in UK and LRDG preservation Society in US have a couple. The UK truck has a Dodge 3 ton rear axle with 2 speed diff and a Ford CMP front axle from a 15 cwt. A friend of mine has a Chev like yours and he has just started the conversion. He had a near perfect example of this truck, but it was too good to mutilate. He sold it to another enthusiast to keep it in good order.

[hbtoday98]

hi the link for the chev cd is not working if one was to want a copy who or where does one look.
many thanks mal

[Tony Smith]

You can send a PM to Clive on this forum to "Servicepub", or purchase the CD through his website.

[Andrew H.]

G’Day from NZ ,
Three of us here are creating replica of a 1942 LRDG Chev 1533X2 30cwt truck (the long-nosed kind with the “art deco” grille). Ours is based on a 1945 truck, which we assume was partly built in Australia as it has GMH stamped on some parts. We are having frustrating problems obtaining the correct engine mounts and wonder if anyone in the forum can help. We ordered new engine mounts from a US supplier but when they arrived they were too big to fit between the bell-housing and chassis so we had to return them. We showed them photos of our old original mounts (see attached photos - they cannot be used as they are in poor condition) and they said they had never seen that type before and cannot supply them. Then they sent us another kind of engine mount that was smaller and did fit between the bell-housing and chassis. Both types from the US are made of steel with a vulcanised rubber pad inside.

However we cannot use the new US engine mount as there seems to be a deficiency in its design. It seems to us that engine mounts should include a “male” part that is attached to the chassis and which fits inside the “female” part that is attached to the bell-housing (as shown in the pic) with a rubber pad between them to cushion the vibrations. However no “male” part was supplied and on enquiring to the US supplier they don’t know what we are talking about. This is very strange, because if we use the new US engine mount as supplied, it will be a metal-to-metal connection and the rubber part will have no cushioning or damping effect at all. In the attached photos of our original mount, the red "male" piece fits inside the black "female" piece as shown.

So can you please tell me:

(1) Do Australian-assembled Chev trucks of that era have different engine mounts from US and/or Canadian trucks? Or maybe civilian trucks had different mounts from military trucks?
(2) Can anyone supply me with a photo or diagram of the correct engine mounts for our 1942 Chev truck? I cannot find a drawing even in an original service manual.

I have searched the forum and seen a diagram in another post showing one kind of engine mount that has no rubber, but uses springs instead. However I am not sure whether that is suitable for our truck.

It would be great if someone could put us on the right track.

[Lynn Eades]

Andrew are there any markings on the mounts?
Here is a picture that I recently grabbed from trademe

[cliff]

most of those Chev trucks were built by GM Canada and are not US ones. Holden only assembled them and made a few parts BUT chassis and running gear were Canadian I believe.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Andrew Honeyfield

G’Day from NZ ,
Three of us here are creating replica of a 1942 LRDG Chev 1533X2 30cwt truck (the long-nosed kind with the “art deco” grille). Ours is based on a 1945 truck, which we assume was partly built in Australia as it has GMH stamped on some parts. We are having frustrating problems obtaining t... Both types from the US are made of steel with a vulcanised rubber pad inside.

...This is very strange, because if we use the new US engine mount as supplied, it will be a metal-to-metal connection and the rubber part will have no cushioning or damping effect at all. In the attached photos of our original mount, the red "male" piece fits inside the black "female" piece as shown...

I have searched the forum and seen a diagram in another post showing one kind of engine mount that has no rubber, but uses springs instead. However I am not sure whether that is suitable for our truck.

It would be great if someone could put us on the right track.

Hi Andrew

Finding CMP parts or Militarized Civilian Truck Parts is an interesting challenge as you well know. Don't know which US parts supplier you are dealing with but most if not all of them really are geared to dealing with cars and pickups.

The following is out of the Canadian Chevy Truck Parts Cataloque 1938-1951 it gives information on engine mounts parts # and which trucks they fit as a starting point.

Could you post a picture of where the mount bolts on to the transmission and the cross member that it sits on?

Is this the engine mount you found "I have searched the forum and seen a diagram in another post showing one kind of engine mount that has no rubber, but uses springs instead. However I am not sure whether that is suitable for our truck. "




The following is out of the Canadian Chevy Truck Parts Cataloque 1938-1951 it gives information on engine mounts parts # and which trucks they fit as a starting point. (I had to post this off MLU and link it to get it so you can read the part numbers.)









From the note at the end of mount section I would take it that they routinely replaced the rubber mounts in rough service with the spring units.

Hope this helps.

Cheers Phil

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ghlight=engine

[Andrew H.]

Thanks everyone for your prompt response!

Lyn: There are no markings on the original mounts (so maybe they are not original?).

Cliff: Our truck is definitely made in Canada as the data-plate says so. However some parts are stamped "GMH" indicating parts were added in the Holden factory in Australia before being shipped to NZ. It is the militarised version with the wooden steering wheel and army instrument panel.

Phil: Thanks for your helpful and very comprehensive reply. Yes your diagram is the one I was referring to. Am I correct in thinking that that type of mount was used in trucks used for "heavy duty"? If so, then the LRDG trucks would surely have used that type of mount? The attached photo shows the cross-member with the original(?) "male" mount at right and one of the new (female-only) US mounts at left.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi

In the drawing it is hard to see but there is a tube spacer between the top and bottom of the cross member to keep the rear engine mount from crushing or deforming the cross member. Dose your have this spacer and the reenforced bottom?

Cheers Phil

[Andrew H.]

Thanks again for your help.
No, ours doesn't have that spacer, but we could always make and insert one, if necessary. We do have that type of smaller mount here as well (see new photo attached) as it came off another engine, but until now we have assumed a rubber mount would be better, which is why we purchased the rubber type from the USA. We don't have the springs or bolts that connect that smaller mount to the chassis, but could soon find or make them if necessary. Do you think that smaller type is the correct mount to use? Is that the same mount as the "Blitz" type of Chevs use?

[motto]

For what it's worth,

I've just been out and looked at three L/L Chev chassis and none of them have the tube spacer. For all the years I have been around these trucks I have never come across one with a spacer tube. Perhaps they have all been discarded along the way but they are obviously not a real necessity. The reason for this is that the bolt used is stepped adjacent to the threaded section and a thick washer is used that is pulled up against the step. This gives the right amount of compression on the spring and makes it impossible to crush the cross member. I can see the necessity for the tube if there was no spring to compress and you were merely tightening a bolt to clamp a bracket into place.

Also I have only ever seen the small steel bracket mount with the bolt and spring on these trucks as in Phil's drawing. I believe this is the same set up as used on the Chev Blitz. I have never seen a rubber mounting on one of these vehicles and didn't know they existed until looking on this thread. I suspect the rubber mount to be a post war innovation. Rubber was a precious commodity during the war.

David

[Andrew H.]

Thanks David,
So to be authentic there is only one type of engine mount we should be using and that is the small one with the bolt and spring and no rubber at all!
Correct?

[motto]

Yes Andrew, I believe that to be the case. I do however shy away from making definitive statements because of the frequency with which somebody turns up with conflicting data. I can only go on what I've seen and I don't know it all.

I will say this though. You can't go wrong in using the small bracket with bolt and spring, that was definitely used on wartime trucks. The rubber mounts I would be doubtful about. It is possible that the rubber type rear mounting was used on lighter vehicles, I am not familiar with those at all.

David

[Lynn Eades]

Gentlemen, it seems to me, that the answer can be determined from the parts list posted by Phill.
Do we know the series of the truck?
Do we know the year it was built?
Who has the steel mounting brackets, and what part numbers if any are on them?
The one in Phill's drawing showing the bushing and washer is a #602787 this number does not appear in the other list which mostly identifies (earlier?) numbers in the 59xxxx range.
Is the 602787 one, an improved (stronger?) model?

Andrew, yes, the spring and steel mount is the CMP style (I recall someone posted about the way the bolt is fitted)
As David states. this arrangement can be used, with no harm done, and if more info comes to light later, then so be it.

[Andrew H.]

Thanks Lyn,
I don't know the "series" of our truck but the data plate says it is a 1945 model and the attached two photos show it before we dismantled it. I think the engine number might also be relevant but its away being reconditioned at present.

And thanks also David,
I had to chuckle at your comment, as I also sometimes confidently make definitive statements which are subsequently proved wrong But in this case, I think you are correct and we will probably use the spring type of mount. As stated before, we do have a set of those mounts here, but don't have the springs or special bolts to go with them. Can anyone provide a photo of them?
Cheers,
Andrew

[Lynn Eades]

Andrew, you can probably scale the bolts from Phill's drawing. The springs are primarily there to allow the "rigid" engine assy. to move away from the chassis, which will flex in a cross country situation. The spring specs are probably not that critical.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Lynn

There is a problem with the perfectly logical of working back from the parts sheet number to the Canadian Parts Book part numbers. The Parts Sheet was US and for some very strange reason not all the part numbers back and forth across the boarder are the same.

I have both master parts books covering period of the pages I posted, both Canadian and US an it often drives me crazy to find visually identical parts one Canadian one US with two different part numbers.

The best use of either parts book these days is to find those parts which were common to a particular time to a particular vehicle and then go looking for parts that way.

Just to add to the fun the Chevy CMP Part numbers sometimes match the civilian parts book sometimes they don't.

As I have not installed the engine mount I posted pictures of I can easily provide dimensions.

Cheers Phil

[Stuart Kirkham]

G'day Andrew

I have posted two photos of the right and left engine mounts from an original ex NZ LRDG Chev. This Chev is in an unmolested state and I believe the engine mounts are the originals. Although the mounts are covered in grease and oil, you should get an idea of the set-up.

This is the vehicle the photos come from.





Engine mounts.





I hope this helps.

[motto]

Bingo!

David

[Lynn Eades]

Yep! That settled that!
Are you happy Andrew?

[hrpearce]

Andrew, the black engine mount in your picture is the same as the mounts in my 47/48 Chev 1100.

[Lynn Eades]

I love that colour on the gearbox!

[Andrew H.]

Yes, I am very happy and want to thank you all again for being so helpful. I had previously spent a very long time trying to figure it out and you guys provided the answer very quickly. What a great forum!! The photos of Tommy's truck confirm what David, Lyn and others have said and I note in passing that the spring is attached to the underside of the cross member.

A small point about Tommy K's truck: It may be ex-NZ but almost certainly is not ex-LRDG, as none are known to have survived the war, except one earlier type in the Imperial War Museum. The truck shown appears to be the "India pattern" type of Chev and may have seen desert service as it has correct sand tyres but it has an un-cut grill and several other features that indicate it is not LRDG. But a great truck anyway!

[Stuart Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Andrew Honeyfield

Yes, I am very happy and want to thank you all again for being so helpful. I had previously spent a very long time trying to figure it out and you guys provided the answer very quickly. What a great forum!! The photos of Tommy's truck confirm what David, Lyn and others have said and I note in passing that the spring is attached to the underside of the cross member.

A small point about Tommy K's truck: It may be ex-NZ but almost certainly is not ex-LRDG, as none are known to have survived the war, except one earlier type in the Imperial War Museum. The truck shown appears to be the "India pattern" type of Chev and may have seen desert service as it has correct sand tyres but it has an un-cut grill and several other features that indicate it is not LRDG. But a great truck anyway!

Andrew

The truck shown in my photo was one of a number of these vehicle type modified by GM Holden Australia for the NZ forces in North Africa. Whilst in transit from the east coast of Australia to North Africa, it was decided that the vehicle was no longer required at it's intended destination. The NZ vehicles were therefore off loaded at Fremantle Port in Western Australia. As the truck never made it to North Africa, the 'in service' modifications you mention were never made.

Apparently the NZ vehicles were utilised around the Perth region by the Australian army for the remainder of the war until sold off as war surplus. The vehicle has a top coat of army green that has been hand/brush applied. I presume this would have been done by the Australian army as it covers up the vehicle number on the bonnet.

The farmer who owns the Chev stated that he purchased it directly from one of the disposal sales in the late 40's. It was here that he learnt of it's history. He also mentioned that there were other similar vehicles awaiting disposal. Although this truck did not see overseas service, it is a genuine ex NZ vehicle. This information was relayed to me by the farmer who purchased the vehicle. He is a very knowledgeable man and has a history of CMP acquisitions and preservation.

I have posted this photo taken of the vehicle number on the bonnet. The number is either '13855' or just '8355'. I can't tell if the mark in front of the 8 is a number 1 or just an anomaly in the paint application. The '1' appears to extend lower than the other numbers.

I am hoping that someone can confirm this number as being ex NZ.

[Andrew H.]

G'Day Tommy, I should make it clear that I am not an expert in LRDG matters and sincerely hope someone with much more knowledge will be able to give a more definitive answer on your truck. Your truck could have been intended for use by the NZ forces in North Africa without necessarily being an "an LRDG truck" or one intended for LRDG use. I have always understood that the LRDG Chevs were shipped directly from Canada to Egypt rather than from New Zealand, but I could be wrong. There does not seem much sense in shipping LRDG trucks from Canada to NZ and then to Egypt, especially considering that the LRDG was not specifically a NZ unit.

From the photo your truck appears to have the 4-inch wider front mudguards and wider front axle, which were features of the LRDG trucks. Does it have a creeper gear? I understand that was another factory-installed feature. However, the truck in the photo does not have the Godtfreidson rear ammo body (could have been removed) or the "star" pattern front hubs that are trademark features of the "art-deco" LRDG trucks. These features should be visible in your truck if it was intended for LRDG use. I think it also has the petrol tank and filler cap in the "wrong" place for a LRDG truck.

I understand that the other special modifications were made in the LRDG workshops in Cairo and would therefore not be present in your truck, including the cut-away grille slats, cut-away hip panels, the pto compressor, aero screens and the brackets for sand mats and sand channels etc. I am not sure whether the checker-plate flooring panels were installed in Canada or later in Egypt.

[motto]

I was delighted to see the photos of the Chev posted by Tommy whatever its origins may be.
My father who died last year at the age of 93 was a vehicle enthusiast all his life and had an accurate memory for vehicles he had seen.
During the war he was stationed in the Darwin area for some time as part of 7th battalion signals. One day we were talking trucks and he told me that he had seen what he referred to as 'Desert Chevs, in the Northern Territory during his time up there. From his brief description I assumed the trucks he saw were probably Indian Army Pattern.
I had no confirmation of the presence of such vehicles although not actively searching.
The old man's been proved right.

David

[Stuart Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Andrew Honeyfield

G'Day Tommy, I should make it clear that I am not an expert in LRDG matters and sincerely hope someone with much more knowledge will be able to give a more definitive answer on your truck.

However, the truck in the photo does not have the Godtfreidson rear ammo body (could have been removed)

These features should be visible in your truck if it was intended for LRDG use.

I think it also has the petrol tank and filler cap in the "wrong" place for a LRDG truck.

Andrew

I too am not an expert on LRDG vehicles although I do take an interest in them. I can only go on the photographs I took of the truck, information I have from the owner and information I find through research.

I believe this truck may have been a 'Headquarters/Survey Section' vehicle as these had the same timber rear bodies and timber cab sides. http://lrdg.hegewisch.net/lrdgvehicles.html

Although this Chev in the photo below is an earlier model, it does display very similar modifications including the cab side fuel filler and chassis mounted side fuel tank. It also has the timber rear body. The other photo shows an officer inside a timer bodied LRDG vehicle. Photo taken from here - http://lrdg.hegewisch.net/lrdg-hq-trucks.html


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...psefae9bdf.jpg


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...psbea81a42.jpg

To help you out with your questions about the truck, I post the following photos.

The truck still retains a few parts of it's original timber general service body including the 'headboard' and original shaped chassis 'joists' (as they still retain remains of the original kharki green paint). You can see the underbody 'joist' in the side petrol tank photo.

You will notice that the 'headboard' on this vehicle is identical in height to the one shown in the wartime photo showing the officer at his desk.

The following photo show:

The front of the 'headboard' with it's fittings still in situ.



The rear view shows that the original timber side boards have simply been sawn off at the corner junction. The farmer undertook this work as he wanted a 'sideless' tray setup to cart hay around his property. He would have also found the raised timber floor wheel arches an obstruction so they would have been removed as well. I would not be surprised if he still had the remains of the timberwork tucked away in one of his sheds as he threw nothing away. Actually, come to think about it, the floor boards on the tray look very similar in width.



As pointed out earlier in this post, the cab side fuel filler look correct and the chassis mounted fuel tank also looks correct as it has a top and bottom section to it's construction.





I hope this helps

[Stuart Kirkham]

Andrew

More food for thought

Having made the suggestion that the truck may have been a 'Headquarter/Survey Section' vehicle, I have since found this photo showing a timber bodied vehicle used by the LRDG. Note the two machine gun pedestal mounts which would indicate that it is a 'fighting vehicle'. http://www.lrdg.org/historical_photos4.htm


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6afd039c.jpg

Note that the vehicle closest to the camera in the photo below appears to have the same timber body with the deep square cut wheel wells. These trucks are New Zealand patrol vehicles, 1943. http://natlib.govt.nz/records/228469...e+desert+group

Note that the spare wheel is in same position. The tire is supported through the use of a shaped timber block mounted to the running board.


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps397ff2c1.jpg

Interestingly, this truck has exactly the same setup. Note also the timber tool/chain box that sits under the tray. Compare it to the wartime photo. Same position and size. Note also the steel upright corner bracket of the rear body is the same 'unusual' shape with the outward facing blade as well.

[motto]

The closest vehicle in the group of three appears to have the standard L/L Chev ten stud wheel pattern. (Presumably ten on the rear and five on the front) Not the 'star' type Blitz hubs.
This is also in line with the WA truck.
The bumper on the nearest truck is of a civilian type unlike the WA truck which has the heavy L/L type.
The furthest truck from the camera is quite different and is running on Blitz type wheels and hubs.
The side mounted fuel tank on the WA truck is the standard tank supplied with L/L Chevs though very few came with them from what I've seen. These tanks were 18 gallon capacity and Hudson Stores in Melbourne had them unassembled. The late Mike Edwards still had some of them.
David

[Andrew H.]

Tommy, that's really interesting stuff, and great to see such close detail. I know there were several different types of trucks used in the LRDG and your photos support that, but if some of them were sent from NZ it is the first I have heard of it. If so, we might be able to build ours with a wooden deck which will be cheaper and quicker than building the steel ammo body.

We have based our vehicle on the batch of 200 30cwt 1533X2 trucks that were especially manufactured for the LRDG by Chev of Canada and (I believe) shipped directly from Canada to Egypt. Those trucks had the modifications listed in my earlier post, including the fuel tank and filler cap on the RHS side, checker-plate floors, flat dash, steel ammo bodies, wide front axles, wide front mudguards, star-shaped front hubs, a pto-driven air compressor for rapid tyre inflation, a creeper gear for unsticking and the cut-away grille and hip panels etc. So the confusion seems to have arisen because we are talking about different models of truck.

There are not many completed LRDG replica trucks worldwide. When we started our project we thought we were the first people in NZ to be building one of these trucks, but since then we have discovered that no fewer than five others already exist here and two more are under construction. We will soon have enough trucks for a patrol! The other builders have researched their projects very thoroughly, and it interesting to see that theirs all have the above-listed modifications and so are significantly different from your truck. That does not mean of course that your truck was not intended for LRDG use. I wish someone more knowledgeable than me would chime in here!