to Champ or not to Champ......

[gordon]

There are more parts in a Champ back axle than that whole '34 Dodge dump, David

You might want to rescue them, park them in a corner, and sell them on, but that's as far as I would go.

[Mike Cecil]

The Pommie vehicle devotees would say 'go for it', but being a practical CMP and jeep oriented person, and with a vague recollection that back axles are a perennial problem, I'd heed Gordon's advice!!

Just did an article on the Austin Champ for the MVPA 'Army Motors'. They were not a popular vehicle in the Australian Army which procured 401 (400 under contract, one damaged one from the original trials). Very complicated vehicle to work on, and parts would be something of a challenge.

Mike C

[Lynn Eades]

Didnt I see a fine Dodge laying around in the back ground at some point in your postings? (are they too common?)

[aj.lec]

The person to ask on here is Richard Coutts-Smith
He has one

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

They do have some good points, and I have never regretted going down the Champ path.
From the pics 2k is about $1500 too much.
Your main supply of parts would be in the UK, which is going to factor heavily in the cost of parts. Nearly everything is still available, mostly NOS, some repo.
Rusty sills are a common problem.
The motors are a B40 Rolls Royce (made under licence by Austin) and are generally a long lasting unit, fully waterproofed, which also adds a little complication.
Torsion bar suspension all round, which provides a comfy ride, but there are a lot of moving parts to look at during a rebuild.
Transfer case is integral with the back diff, it is not of the High/low variety, but supplies a change in direction: giving 5 forward and 5 reverse gears.
Most back diff problems were resolved during service life ( I see they are military, not the rarer civilian model).
I could go on for sometime, but I will spare you. Yes they are a complicated little beasty
but I imagine a right hand drive Rolls Royce powered convertible will help you stand out from the crowd, but there will be a fair bit of work involved.

If you have the vehicle No. (on Brass plate, upper firewall under the hood, passenger side,) you should get a little info from the register:
http://www.austinchamp.com/
Not to mention a full history of the Champ in general.

Just to show what waterproofing was for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VLTlMr7qYk

Let us know what you decide.
Rich.

[Mike Cecil]

Richard,

A sensible answer for David to work with! Nicely done. My comment on parts is, of course based upon having to source internationally: no 'quick fix' when you are in the USA.

Was I right with regard to the back axle? What were the problems they had in service?

Mike C

[David DeWeese]

Thanks everyone for the great information!

I also thought 2k was a bit high, but I didn't know for sure...

I think I will stay away from them for now, but they sure are cute!

Thanks again,
David

[David DeWeese]

Originally Posted by gordon

There are more parts in a Champ back axle than that whole '34 Dodge dump, David

You might want to rescue them, park them in a corner, and sell them on, but that's as far as I would go.

Thanks again for all the helpful information.

Jack, I sat down and carefully read through all your restoration posts on HMVF tonight until about page 6, then I honestly developed a cold sweat of sorts!

I don't have the will, time or money to invest in the efforts to put into a new Champ project. They are very cool vehicles, but one has to REALLY want to restore a vehicle to see it through to the end....

Having said all this, if anyone want these Champs I will do my best to convince the owner to lower the price to a reasonable level, and get them into the right hands...

Thanks, David

[JackM]

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Jack, I sat down and carefully read through all your restoration posts on HMVF tonight until about page 6, then I honestly developed a cold sweat of sorts!

I don't have the will, time or money to invest in the efforts to put into a new Champ project. They are very cool vehicles, but one has to REALLY want to restore a vehicle to see it through to the end....

David,

I was lucky that we have a small team of like minded folk - all retired - who have a collection of skills. I would not have attempted the rebuild on my own, as I don't have the knowledge or skill base required.

At one stage some years ago, I too vowed never to have anything to do with these British nightmares, but the opportunity presented itself, we were looking for a project and the team was willing.

I'm glad we gave it a go, but these machines are not for the faint of heart. There are any number of very good reasons, why these vehicles lasted only around ten years in British Army employ, despite the setup costs and why no other Army seems to have bought them in quantity - except for our 401.



Jack

[David DeWeese]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyKBI...ature=youtu.be

[JackM]

Good on you, David - you clearly relish a challenge.

I was surprised by the (rust) condition of the vehicle - it seems to be in very good nick apart from the rear seat base, which won't be too hard to repair. I think my blog describes the repair I did on my seat base.

I was also surprised that the vehicle started so robustly on 12v - could the starter motor have been re-wired ?

Good steering wheels though, are not that easy to find. Almost everything you need can be obtained from the UK spares folk - though you'll pay a hefty price, if you need their stuff. How was the steering wheel on the second Champ ?

What is your plan to repair this vehicle - will you start on it straightaway ?

You might want to check the Champ Owners Club site, which includes a rudimentary forum

http://www.austinchamp.com/

I looked for your vehicle # here ...

http://www.austinchamp.com/03%20Regi...dex/CT2001.htm

... but couldn't find it. If you get in touch with the forum organisers, they will be happy to add both numbers to the list.

If you need any help, let us know - although you seem to have made a very good start.


Jack

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Well done David.
You are in for an interesting time.
While a 24volt system in general, the ignition is actually 12v, gives more reliable starting, which is pretty evident from your clip.
FYI, the jack ( a surprising extra) fits across the transmission tunnel behind the front seats, along with the starting handle.
I would suggest inspecting the 3 round water jacket plates on the block behind the generator, they can eat out from the inside and let go with no warning.

This crowd in Tulsa:
http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/spares.htm
stock a lot of B series parts, Thermostats is one to take note of as they are quite unusual and hard to get at times. Most of the electrics are the same across the range of vehicles.
Most of the Champ fraternity is very helpful, so when in doubt, ask.

Just to give you something to look forward to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH6MtkUTmtI
The screeching sound heard occaisionally as the Champs hit the water is the fan declutching, a neccessary design feature as the fan is mounted on the crankshaft.

Best of British luck to your resto!!
Rich.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Courtesy of Stuart at the Champ Register:

Chassis No: WN1-2380
Army reg: 23 BE 80
Engine No: 4222
Date into Service: 1st April 1953 when received from Austin at the 31st B Vehicle Depot Church Broughton, part of the 3rd Vehicle Group HQ, Church Broughton in Derbyshire and given Receipt Voucher: CBR/R/3 (Note: It was one of four Champs delivered under this RV number)
Struck Off: 8th May 1968 from BAOR (British Army of the Rhine) - This is one of the last Champs to leave service - 2 or 3 years after most had been removed.
Sold: Probably at auction in Monchengladbach a few months later.

BAOR service explains the low slung reflector at the back.
Interesting to see if the original motor is still fitted.
Rich.