Impressive performance by a Dodge

[Keith Webb]

Perhaps not the Dodge you were thinking, but impressive nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq2jY...layer_embedded

[Hanno Spoelstra]

So what was the trick?

Limited slip differential? Reckless rally driver?

H.

[Lynn Eades]

Hanno, Skinny wheels get the weight down to the hard.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Hanno, Skinny wheels get the weight down to the hard.

Was there any "hard" under that mud? Or is the car that light it actually floats through the mud on those skinny's?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Keith

That is a great video, really puts terms like SUV and OFF ROAD in perspective of time.

But it takes some of the impressiveness out of a series of videos I was going to post links too:


Part 1 of 4 Videos of the Dresden Breslau Rally these videos a real hoot.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_154389&feature=iv&s rc_vid=-NlHL9iQj08&v=15UZexBDbuA

If that is not enough here is a link to a series of 31 videos on the Rally.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOEPH...A581C0C72336AA

If the links don't work pop over to where I post links to stuff like this for our club newsletter. http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/NEWSLETTER%20EXTRA.htm

Cheers Phil

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Was there any "hard" under that mud? Or is the car that light it actually floats through the mud on those skinny's?

In Normandy 1994 at the MVT camp, heavy rain turned the field in to a quagmire and although there was a section of metal trackway from the gate, once off it a lot of all wheel drive vehicles including jeeps were struggling .......until a 1930's Austin Seven wireless car popped up, the driver went straight in a bobbed along through the mud just like the Dodge, got to the top of the field and parked up ....... great to see, wish we had filmed it.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Was there any "hard" under that mud? Or is the car that light it actually floats through the mud on those skinny's?

It's an interesting question Hanno, I've always marvelled at the off-road capabilities of these old vintage cars, especially in mud. Contrary to popular belief they're actually quite heavy, the Dodge seen in this footage is specified at 2810 lbs. The fast motion in these old silent movies tends to make them appear lightweight, and the reason they tip over so easily is the high C of G. If you watch the two blokes rolling it over you can see it rotates around the motor, which virtually stays at the same level. Also the body height allows them to exert much more strength, and I notice it balances nicely on the point of the roof and the mudguard.

On the question of traction I agree with Lynn - there's always "hard" under the mud, it's just a question of depth. The great advantage of skinny wheels is they slice through the mud like a knife through butter, rather than having to force it out to the sides like a wide modern tyre. That means there's very little rolling resistance to overcome, and the much smaller contact area with the "hard" surface below provides much higher tyre loading, which greatly increases friction - ie. traction. Hence you really don't need a limited slip diff, they've only become necessary with the advent of much wider tyres.

Of course, the "skinny wheel principle" doesn't apply on sand, because there's no "hard" below!

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...-Model-30.aspx

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

a lot of all wheel drive vehicles including jeeps were struggling .......until a 1930's Austin Seven wireless car popped up, the driver went straight in a bobbed along through the mud just like the Dodge, got to the top of the field and parked up.

Great story Richard, and a good example of the skinny wheel principle. I bet there were some red faces amongst the jeep owners!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

In Normandy 1994 at the MVT camp, heavy rain turned the field in to a quagmire and although there was a section of metal trackway from the gate, once off it a lot of all wheel drive vehicles including jeeps were struggling .......until a 1930's Austin Seven wireless car popped up, the driver went straight in a bobbed along through the mud just like the Dodge, got to the top of the field and parked up ....... great to see, wish we had filmed it.

A bit like this ... http://youtu.be/cqxxsJSHkyc

It's not the car that starts bouncing, it's the drivers hopping up and down!

H.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

A bit like this ...It's not the car that starts bouncing, it's the drivers hopping up and down!

H.

Hanno,
That looks great fun! Interesting to see the different techniques as well.

[motto]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Great story Richard, and a good example of the skinny wheel principle. I bet there were some red faces amongst the jeep owners!

Not only the jeep owners. I was camped in that field with a Studebaker US6 and anticipating 'civilised' conditions in Europe had removed the drive shaft to the rear most axle. We only moved a few feet with front and intermediate axles driving before all progress stopped.
Installation of the missing shaft got us going again but did we churn some mud on the way out with the beast barely responding to the helm!
I can quite understand why those swamp racers have very narrow or knife edged, large diameter wheels.

David.

[Lynn Eades]

Great footage on both counts, Keith and Hanno. When I see all that wheel spinning, I have to wonder how violent our 1931 Napier earth quake was. It left lots cars with broken axles from the rocking. Many had to wait for stock from o/seas as the national stocks were used up.
Back to the subject,
The bouncing of the crew makes all the difference, especially with the skinnier tyres.
I remember going to the motorcycle hill climbs with my Dad, when I was a kid. I loved watching those guys riding their big heavy Nortons, AJS's, BSA's and the like, with the primary chains wirling away by their boots. Great stuff!

[Bob McNeill]

Richard I bet your heart skipped a beat in 94 when the mighty Mack went down in the nose and wouldn,t move till a Matador just idled away with said Mack. Seemed that super singles went thru while duals became slicks.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Bob McNeill

Richard I bet your heart skipped a beat in 94 when the mighty Mack went down in the nose and wouldn,t move till a Matador just idled away with said Mack. Seemed that super singles went thru while duals became slicks.

Good on you Bob, I never got a photo of the Austin. Funniest incident was one of our members with a Dodge M37 (I think), fitted with a garage breakdown crane and towing a caravan. He drove on to the field along the metal trackway and as the Dodge dropped off the end into the mud, the crane slammed down onto the caravan roof!

regards, Richard

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Hanno

That is a really good video, but would the bounce traction method work on some thing larger? Say 20 guys in the back of 3 ton.

Thanks to Keith for starting another good thread.

Cheers Phil

[motto]

I would imagine that so long as they were coordinated it would have some effect but wouldn't it look funny! Sometimes merely having a couple of ton on board or removing outside duals will make a truck perform better.
There was a fellow in Queensland who had a replica VW Kubelwagen. It had a rear bumper that was ideal for standing on. With one or two blokes traveling on the bumper to bounce at the appropriate time that vehicle would go anywhere a Jeep would go.
That was the first vehicle I'd seen 'bounced' for traction and I remember being surprised how effective it was. Probably more effective because of the bouncers (bouncees?) being right at the rear.

David

[Lynn Eades]

V dub's by design, are very good cross country.
Another thing many people don't consider is tyre pressure. I did see in Hanno's car trial footage, that at least one car had deflated the tyres.

[motto]

That's the reason for the DUKW central tyre inflation system.(And others).
As regards traction, I once got my WLA Harley Davidson stuck on a hillside and couldn't get it out of the situation no matter how I struggled. That was until I took a rope I had with me and wound it round the tyre passing it through the spokes. I then walked it out. I imagine that I wasn't the first to have done that with a rope.

Another trick I heard of was through a friend that had a cement truck unable to drive up his wet, slippery access lane. The driver sprinkled lime on his tyres and proceeded on his way.

David

[Lynn Eades]

I was stuck once. I foolishly went down a greasy hill and only had 1 way out. Back up.
When I gave up trying to drive out, I reversed the front wheel on my 4x4 Dodge. Tied a wire rope to a tree, put the eye of the rope through a wheel hole. poked my wheel brace through the eye, locked up the brake on the other side, and in 4wd drove up the rope. It wound up on the brake drum. A lot of mucking about, but at the time was short of options. It worked well.
Maybe if I'd deflated the tyres from road pressure she might have climbed out on her own, but never had a tyre pump with me.

[Little Jo]

Hi Guys

A 1920 Dodge. A bit unbelievable given it was only rear wheel drive and they didn't have to crank it to start. They did amazing things, not shown, to advertise cars in those days.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/nq2jY1trxqg?rel=0

Cheers

Tony

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Tony, Tony, Tony,
Time to take your memory pills, already discussed this at length:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ighlight=DODGE
Rich.

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Tony, Tony, Tony,
Time to take your memory pills, already discussed this at length:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ighlight=DODGE
Rich.

Richard

My apologies old chap and to all MLU members. I must have suffered a seniors moment, or I am just worn out from shifting house. I have booked in for the brain scan

Cheers

Tony

[Tony Smith]

Old vehicles can be such fun, don't try this in a shiny, new 4wd.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/nq2jY1trxqg?rel=0

[maple_leaf_eh]

An engine rated at 35 hp moving a 2200lb car on skinny tires with no tread, and leaf springs. That is working everything pretty hard.

[Lynn Eades]

I love the way they wound up the unbroken windows after it was back on its wheels.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Old vehicles can be such fun, don't try this in a shiny, new 4wd.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/nq2jY1trxqg?rel=0

Thanks for sharing. That 'oil field Dodge' rang a bell - indeed it was shared on here 5 years ago, so I merged both threads.