Fitting tall guys in Cab 11/12's

[Bob Carriere]

Good evening everyone.

Truth of the matter is that the average WWII soldier had survived a depression and his overall "growth" had been affected ... so say a typical Canuck, even if coming from a farm, was probably in his late teens and about 150 pounds full clothed. He will no doubt get bigger but that is a post war issue.

I am 6 foot 2 1/2 inches and weight as much as 247 at one time...... now working hard at staying around 214 with a waist that went from 44+ down to 40 inches....and maybe shrank 3/4 of an inch.

Sitting in my cab 11 was a tight fit but can now squeeze my but a little better as the belly allows me to bend my legs better. My truck came with NO wooden spacer on the driver's side and a one inch rotten hard wood on the passenger side...

See pictures of the original condition ......

The foot well space is so small that I cannot drive the truck with safety boots with hard steel toe caps..... I need dress shoes or running shoes.
But I do have sufficient space to raise my left leg and double shift the clutch.

Howeever, I sat in the driver's seat of a CGT owned by the boys in Petrolia.... an amazing restoration previsouly features in MLU...... well in the gun tractor the front seat is hellish.... you actually have to step in a foot well and although I was 247 at the time, I would not fare any better today.
As I sat erect in the driver's eat the top pf my left leg was touching not pressing on the bottom of the steering wheel. No way that I could even try to drive it.

NOw my neighbour across the street is an old post war gunner who trained in the early 50's when the old CMP cgt where still in use.. when I explained my experienced he pointed out that it was regualr practice in his days to remove the reat cushion for the tall guys anf give them a bunk woolen blanket to sit on....OUCH!!!!

Now my cab 11 is not fully assembled yet and the set is bolted to the floor pan using a 3x 3 pine block of about the same height as the steel sliders with out any wooden spacer...... so my dimensions will be the same.

As anybody noticed the modification done to the cab 12...... just behind the seats back..... at the belt line where the top portion bolts on to the bttom section.......all the cab 12 I have seen have the angle iron relieved, section cut out by about 3/4 inch allowing the seat back upper most pipe to travel slightly more to the rear......it seems that every little bit helps.

The tight cab may also explain the propensity of soldiers to loose the doors in North Africa.... and the hood/bonnet if you had any maintenance to do....

I have riden in Phil's cab 12 and not having a top does make it like walking in to an open carriage...... much more pleasant.

Early parade square pictures in Canada do show the door of early cab 11 fully opened back to the cargo box...and may have been driven like that " a la jeep style"... which probably made a few sergeant angry when dents showed up in the prestine war machines..... so they retro fitted restraining straps which became standard on the cab 12.

Now the question of raising the steering wheel is interesting but from my rough measurements the most you would gain is one inch maybe 30mm at which point unsufficient clearance with the windsheild/windscreen would mean squeezing your knuckles.... no cheating allowed the cab 11 windows did not open forward.

So we have to suck it up... wear narrow shoes..... and expect back apin and sore bottoms if you intend to tour North America..... I had big plans of long re-enactment trips.... now I will settle to trailering the little beast whiel driving my air conditioned pick up to the site. Rets assured it will see dirt and mud but not about to re-enact driving from Ottawa to Gagetown NB

While on the topic of limited foot well area....... as anyone noticeds that soemn cab 12 actually have an even tighter foot well.... and that the inner fender is knotched to fit further inside and around the spring shackles....?
Not sure what the explanation is but the floor plate is narrower and the inner fender more rounded. I have one such example and it's the only one I have seen.

As usual, I will eagerly await comments and the wisdoms of others..... ain't it great!!!!

Bob C.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Now the question of raising the steering wheel is interesting but from my rough measurements the most you would gain is one inch maybe 30mm at which point unsufficient clearance with the windsheild/windscreen would mean squeezing your knuckles.

This is another reason I'd prefer to lengthen the steering column rather than raise it, or perhaps a combination of both mods to achieve the ideal position. I see no great difficulty in lengthening the steering column, and 40mm would be sufficient to replicate Cab 13 dX (distance from clutch pedal to bottom of steering wheel) which is the critical dimension for tall drivers.

However there may be an easier solution we haven't considered - swing the steering column to the right. Cab 11/12 steering column runs parallel to the chassis rail (looking from directly above) whereas the Cab 13 steering column is skewed outwards. This provides more room for your left leg to escape from under the steering wheel when operating the clutch. A quick check on my own Cab 12 suggests moving the steering column bracket 20mm to the right would move the steering wheel far enough away from the handbrake lever to allow your left leg to pass between comfortably. Naturally this would encroach upon your right leg movement, however there's plenty of spare room between the steering wheel and the door.

It's worth noting too that the steering wheel on the Cab 12 is not in line with the seat - it's offset to the left by approx 50mm. In other words it's not centrally between your legs when you're driving. That means swinging the steering column to the right would centralize the steering wheel with the seat - as is the case on the Cab 13.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

However there may be an easier solution we haven't considered - swing the steering column to the right.

Gents, I trialled this mod today on my Cab 12 Ford, and although it's an improvement it's not enough to allow my left leg to escape out from under the steering wheel. Photos below are taken with both feet on the pedals and the steering column bracket moved 25mm to the right. That's about the limit for this mod because the steering wheel is starting to get too close to the door. As you can see my right leg can still fit between the steering wheel and the door when operating the brake, but my left leg is still trapped under the steering wheel by the handbrake when operating the clutch.

What this experiment proves is that I will never be able to extract my left leg out from under the steering wheel when operating the clutch, unless I'm prepared to modify the handbrake and probably the engine cover and dashboard as well. This is entirely pointless when the problem can be solved by simply increasing dX (the distance between the clutch pedal pad and the bottom of the steering wheel) so that my lower leg can fit comfortably between them when operating the clutch. The simplest way to increase dX is to lengthen the steering column, and you can see in pic 5 that it would not require much, perhaps 40mm at the most. Alternatively you could increase dX by setting the clutch pedal 40mm depressed, however you'd need to move the toeplate 40mm forward in order to maintain full pedal travel. This is quite feasible with a bit of sheetmetal work, but my own preference at this stage is to lengthen the steering column. In due course I shall trial this mod and report my findings here.

Cheers,
Tony

[Tony Wheeler]

Here's a pic of the wedge used under the front steering box mount on the Rover armoured car, to adjust for the changed angle of the steering column due to the lowered steering wheel. You'd need something like this under the rear steering box mount if you raised the steering wheel.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Guys,

interesting to see all these suggestions and options to fit the larger blokes in a cab 11/12. I guess with my C8 the problem might be even more difficult as I think the steering boxes has a fixed angle, so adjusting the support on the dash wouldn't work without also changing the angle of the steering box itself (?)

By the way.....what about a different steering wheel? Does anyone know of a steering wheel with a slightly smaller diameter and a design/look close to the original? Maybe even one with a different boss in the centre which already raises the steering wheel???? Wishfull thinking?

Alex

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

I just noticed that we have been talking about both FORD and CHEVY Pattern 11/12s interchangeably and though close they are not identical.

Alex raises an interesting idea in extending the steering tube 1 or 2 inches might be a solution. With the replacement steering boxes sold for the US trucks of this vintage that is what they tell you to do cut the shaft and remove the outer tube and weld the new box on to the old steering tube.

While I would not rush into cutting the shaft, I would really consider mocking it up by removing the steering wheel and moving it out 1 or 2 to see if that solves the knee clearance issue.

Another alternative, just went to see the orthopedic surgeon about my knees this morning and in the course of things they discovered that I was 2 1/2" shorter than I was 20 years ago. So maybe just wait until you shrink enough to fit. Naw that's a bad idea you would miss out on too much fun driving these things.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

Should be a fairly easy process and can be tried out in gradual steps.

Outside tube can be cut and a overriding sleeve easy enough to make. similarly the inner shaft can be cut and sleeved.... a tight fit would allow to slide the try various lenghts before deciding if it is worth welding both components to a permanent setting.

How about totally modifying the tube/shaft with hot rod steering Ujoint that
would eliminate any needs for spacer/wedges...?

In my mind first prize goes to our friend in Texas who converted his F8 to a Ford C6 automatic transmission ......... he was determined to drive it.

For me diet and age shrinkage is within easy reach!!!!

Bob C