Repro WS No 19 Cdn battery box

[Robert Bergeron]

At the request of our friend Bob Carriere, i am trying to post better pictures of my home battery boxes.

So for Bob and friends here goes..

They were made by my woodworker friend Daniel Trudel with my specifications and supervision.

They are made of 3/4 inch Pine wood for solidity and resistance.

He charged me $200 cdn apiece wich is a fair price for the work involved .

By the way,what was the proper finish for these boxes ?

Thanks for the info from the experts .

[Robert Bergeron]

Second shot

[Robert Bergeron]

And three.

Could someone tell me how to post BIGGER pictures please ?

[Neil Ashley]

Open the pictures on your PC, click on edit and resize to 800X600. If the pictures are low definition you will lose the clarity.

[Grant Bowker]

Instructions on posting images are at: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...posting+images
The box that pops up when you click to attach an image gives size limits as no more than 700 pixels wide (no height limit given) and no greater than 122.1KB.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I have a couple of "cords" of CNo.7 rifle chests, all dated 1945-46. At a glance, Bob's No.19 radio set battery boxes are probably constructed from the same design principles. It follows therefore, that they would be finished similarly. The original paint of a CNo.7 chest is Canadian olive drab. All of mine were overpainted externally with gloss darker green sometime post-war. The drab paint remained untouched inside. By the way, the correct hardware should be slotted screw heads, and depending on the maker, combination slot-and-Robertson head. Not Phillips heads.

If anyone wants hinges or hasps for a CNo.7 or No.15 sniper rifle chest, speak up. I have several dozen sets all stripped out, coated in motor oil, packed in big plastic pails.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Terry

There may be a reason for having the original boxes waxed similar to the then available "butter boxes" now expensive collectable items.

In the case of the butter boxes they were waxed to protect the taste of the fresh butter and keep the butter from saturating the wood.

In the case of the battery boxes a deep imbedded wax would have protected the wood from accidental acid spills or splashes.
Once waxed no paint would be required or stick to the wood.

Bob C

[Grant Bowker]

Many of the battery boxes were inside vehicles. As a result, protection from acid could have been seen as more important than green for camouflage.
I'm not 100% sure but think I remember saving photos from the "for sale" section of David Gordon's VisualCollector web site. I can try to find them but if we are lucky David may have kept a copy too.

[Grant Bowker]

http://www.royalsignals.org.uk/photos/battery-box.htm
http://www.onesixth.co.uk/vb4forum/s...k-installation
I still haven't found the images I wanted, will have to look more.

[Grant Bowker]

All info from ads posted on www.visualcollector.com as part of listing of items that were for sale June 2011. There is a PDF file that includes the descriptions of the boxes that were for sale and then images that correspond to the text (see the file names to match to the text - the original images had to be split to fit the size limits).

[Grant Bowker]

Another battery box style

[Grant Bowker]

Once again, another type

[Robert Bergeron]

Gentlemen,

Thank-you for all the comments/suggestions and information.It makes this Forum so more interesting.
I have a friend who asked were i got the plans to build them. They are posted on this Forum somewere, could somebody remind me please ?

The plans were very detailed and were very helpful thank-you for the member who posted theml.

I don't have the correct screws Terry , i know but they are hard to find and so are the clasps or hinges. It'l have to do while i find some correct ones.

Bob the wax idea sounds good but i need some more convincing. Does anyone have any more info/ideas on finish ?

Grant thanks for the great pictures , wow ! I used the picture posted on the Royal Signals site to guide my friend the woodworker. They were also very helpfull for the detailing of the woodwork.

There is no rush to finish the boxes , i am in the middle of a family crisis, my 49 year old brother just died and it is very sad here...

So , keep the info coming , it changes my mind and helps a lot to think of something else for a change.

Rodger and out for now guys and thanks again for the help. Praise the Lord and pass on the ammunition !

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Gentlemen,

...

There is no rush to finish the boxes , i am in the middle of a family crisis, my 49 year old brother just died and it is very sad here...

...

Permission granted to leave the net.

[Johnny Canuck]

Boxes should be made out of beech or red oak, pine has to much resin in it to absorb the wax properly. Beech/oak are hardwoods, pine is softwood, hardwoods are more resistant to use and abuse.
Wax finish is hot paraffin brushed liberally on the interior and exterior, even on the inner lid instruction label, thick enough that when I pull my finger nail across the inner lid, .............well like scrapping toe jam.
Have 3 wood ones, a battery shipping crate and 2 steel ones, will post pictures shortly.

Sorry to here about the loss of a family member, especially this time of year.

Geoff

[Grant Bowker]

I searched "battery plans" to fit the string length limit. There were more results but some were clearly going to be the vehicle battery. You may want to repeat the search to see if I missed any good leads.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...=battery+plans

[Bob Carriere]

These boxes may be all of different size to accommodate the size of the battery... it seems to me that some are more square some more restangular..... the clue is possibly the A. H. or amp. hour. which vries from 72 to 125 AH might also be wise to consider current modern size to insure they fit what you build.


Robert my condolences on the death of your brother... my Mom died on Xmas day ...... makes for a strange Holiday!!!

Bob C

[Grant Bowker]

The PDF file I attached at post #10 above lists 3 different size boxes. I'm not sure how much of the hardware was common to the different boxes (although the photos in posts #10-12 above may be showing two patterns of hinge). None of those in #10-12 seem to show the lifting handle style shown in post #16. Who knows if the differences are due to battery box maker, early/late, country of manufacture, hardware supplier, whatever was available or personal whim?

The concept of sizing to fit modern batteries depends on whether your prime goal is a working radio or a visually correct setup. (And how much time, money and effort you might want to put into sourcing modern batteries that might approximate the old sizes. If you want to go that route, start by hunting up the BCI charts of battery sizes.) I'm more concerned with the appearance of having a radio kit in the truck than an accurately functioning radio, so I wouldn't be worried if the boxes didn't have a battery within. To each their own.

[cletrac (RIP)]

It looks like they used quite a variety of boxes.

[Bob Carriere]

Nice pictures David showing two different style used together.

If you are only going top used them for looks in a mock set up you might be practical and insulate them to keep a six pack nice and cold!!!!!!

Bob C

[cletrac (RIP)]

Now there's original Canadian thinking!!! Nobody would even check there.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

It looks like they used quite a variety of boxes.

Indeed they did, though to a certain extent they used common components.

Cell, Secondary, Portable was always 2 volt, but came in 7, 16 or 75 Amp hour capacity.

Battery, Secondary, Portable 6 volt in 16Ah (always wooden cased with individual cells that could be unbolted and replaced. 40Ah for WS11 and 21, later metal cased and used with the WS B44 in pairs to give 12 volts. 85Ah was the mainstay of vehicle and ground station radios, especially the WS19. 100/125Ah was used with the WS19, WS19HP (British) and WS9 though was a bit underspecced for the WS9 (WS52) due to the starting current. 170 Ah was better for the heavier sets and used in command vehicles.

Battery, Secondary, Portable 10 volt was a very old one (tapped at 4 volts for WW1 wireless set valve heaters) but still used for some wavemeters and also the long range signalling lamp.

Battery, Secondary, Portable 12 volt existed in 22Ah and 75Ah which were used with the WS22 and other sets - the 22Ah was relatively lightweight and could be carried in a special backpack (later used with the WS62) and the 75Ah unit was for static and vehicle use (also with the WS12/R107 stations, etc.) There was a later 12V 14Ah metal cased battery issued with the WS62, though the 22Ah unit was preferred.

Connectors vary. The WW1 batteries had plastic (Ebonite) 2-pin connectors with different pin sizes and spacings so the wrong battery could not be used with the equipment (a 6 volt lead-acid battery would be instantly fatal to 4-volt valve filaments, and serious overvoltage wouldn't do the vibrator power units for the trench sets much good either). Later on they appear to have dropped this in favour of a standard 2-pin "Niphan" connector, regardless of the battery voltage, and marked the case next to the socket with the voltage and polarity. Larger batteries (over 85Ah) used bolted connections and had notches in the case sides to accommodate the connecting cables

Cases: the wooden and the later pressed steel cases will be the same size for a particular voltage/capacity of battery, because they would need to fit the same vehicle racking while they were both in service. Likewise the connectors are the same (though current issue Niphan connectors are shiny (nickel/chrome plated or stainless steel) rather than blackened brass; wiring colours have unfortunately changed to brown/blue instead of red/black.) Some wooden cases (6V 16Ah and 10V 16Ah I have seen) were painted green externally, presumably to "blend in".

Signal battery manufacturers I've seen are:

T.A. = Tudor Accumulators
P&G = Pritchett & Gold
E.P.S = Electric Power Storage
P&G and EPS = they merged!

I've seen Oldham and Exide in steel cased batteries, but they were 1950 vintage.

Hopefully this is useful (or at least vaguely interesting)?

Chris.
p.s: Never EVER use an automotive type discharge tester on a signals-type battery, it will seriously damage (if not destroy) the battery - they're not designed to supply high currents. (Post-WW2 "New Range" (Larkspur) sets intended for vehicle use and float charging, so the modern vehicle batteries do not have that restriction.)

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

All info from ads posted on www.visual collector.com as part of listing of items that were for sale June 2011. There is a PDF file that includes the descriptions of the boxes that were for sale and then images that correspond to the text (see the file names to match to the text - the original images had to be split to fit the size limits).

I think that 6V 100/125Ah accumulator with the handle on the lid is a bodge job to turn a scrapped battery into a toolbox. The battery is _very_ heavy, especially when filled, and there's no way that the lid clips would take the weight of lifting it by a top handle like that.
(Also the fixing bolts go through the filling and charging instruction labels.)

Only very small (6V 16Ah, 6V 40Ah and the 12V 22Ah) batteries had single lifting points, and those were usually a rubber strap bolted through the end case sides.

Chris.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks all for the support in these difficult times.

I will be going parrafin wax as Geoff suggested. Sounds right and i like the smell of hot parrafin in the morning. It reminds me of my cross country skiing days in the Sutton Québec area, a place called Farmer's Rest.

Next set of boxes i will try Oak or Beech and see what result it gives.

Thanks all for the very good info.

Leaving the net ( as Terry said ) for a few days, off to Sherbrooke tomorrow for the brother's funeral on sathurday.Sad.

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz

I think that 6V 100/125Ah accumulator with the handle on the lid is a bodge job to turn a scrapped battery into a toolbox.

Chris.

I agree with Chris here! You can see the holes in the side in the inside of box shot where the handles have been removed. You would not want to put many tools in there either. More likely a sewing/knitting box.
Here are some of my boxes where as Chris says, the small ones have a leather strap and in the case of my smallest box it's canvas.
None appear to have ever been painted. Just natural wood colour. Although I have satin varnished a couple after sanding the blackened wood.
Apart from one 1942. They are all dated 1945. Shame, as my FFW Morris is 1940. But then my WS11 set and ancillaries are all Australian........Beggars can't be choosers!! Ron

[Johnny Canuck]

Pictures of Accumulators and batteries.

An accumulator is a single cell, a battery is a series of cells in English parlance.

It is sort of hilarious, as research should be done before commencing a project; not when it is nearly finished. But I'm the idiot that wanted $300 to make an exact copy. Hinges are unobtainium and will have to be custom made, same for the catches. $400!

Anyways here goes.

I took a battery box into work and had the boss look at it, he knows his woods much better than I do. He identified beech, oak and mahogany in the one box I had brought in. It would appear that in wartime Britain they used whatever was around that day.

PS Grant I'm not a Visual Collector, I actually acquire the real thing, two of the wooden boxes I have are the ones David Gordon had on his site.

First, a page from WFTW Appendix 9-2



6 Volt 100-125 AH Mk.IV







6 Volt 72 AH No.2






6 Volt 72 AH No.2






End of Part 1

[Johnny Canuck]

Batteries and Accumulators Part 2

I think this is a Canadian item, what it was for.................. I don't know, possibly a R103.

Pattern 5344









Unknown, possibly a homebrew.








End of Part 2

[Johnny Canuck]

Batteries and Accumulators Part 3

Shipping/Transit Case for a 6 Volt 85 AH Mk.II ZB 0102(Lid) Side 6 Volt 85 AH Mk.ILXX ZB C10 (Canadian??). Screw holes in the top seem to match so who knows which is correct or both?










Steel Battery Boxes

6 Volt 85 AH ZB 12716 1953










End of Part 3

[Johnny Canuck]

Batteries and Accumulators Part 4

12 Volt 22 AH






Misc metal battery boxes.



WS58 Battery Box.


UC 6/10 Switchboard Telephone Exchange Internal Battery Box.


Portable lamp, battery box and battery.


No.12 1.5 Volt Cells British on the left, Swedish on the right.


No.12 1.5 Volt British


BA 300/U Canadian


Everready 1.5 Volt


End of Part 4

[Johnny Canuck]

Batteries and Accumulators Part 5

1.5 Volt Cells smaller than the previous 1.5's


Misc batteries.


End

Geoff