RAAF Derrick Trucks

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Sorry, Tony, but to a Canadian, the truck in Pic 3 is officially defined as a 'Lorry, 3 ton, Derrick' .....The DND description of the vehicle and its use also uses the term 'derrick' several times.

So I suppose we are seeing yet another difference of word definition and usage between English speaking nations.

Yes I realize that's the official designation Mike, I was merely pointing out that it's a misnomer. My purpose in doing so was to identify the TRUE source of confusion which invariably sees the Australian nomenclature called into question, as seen again throughout this thread. However my use of upper/lower case was perhaps too subtle, so I shall restate more clearly: The vehicle in pic 3 is definitely a Derrick, but is definitely not a derrick!

On the question of national word usage - in this case we're dealing with a word chosen solely by a WO committee, and thus enforced in relation to this particular vehicle. Therefore we can't assume common usage, as we might if we encountered the word in general literature. I'd be interested to hear from Canadians on this question, but I'd be surprised if they use the word "derrick" interchangeably with "crane", any more than we do in Australia. Certainly the word itself is clearly defined in English dictionaries, and in no way does it apply to the simple crane found on the Lorry, 3 ton, Derrick:

"a kind of crane with a movable pivoted arm for moving heavy weights, especially on a ship."

"a boom for lifting cargo, pivoted at its inner end to a ship's mast or kingpost, and raised and supported at its outer end by topping lifts."

"A machine for hoisting and moving heavy objects, consisting of a movable boom equipped with cables and pulleys and connected to the base of an upright stationary beam."

"lifts and moves heavy objects; lifting tackle is suspended from a pivoted boom that rotates around a vertical axis."

"a jib crane having a boom hinged near the base of the mast so as to rotate about the mast, for moving a load toward or away from the mast by raising or lowering the boom."


Thus we find that a derrick is defined by a boom which both elevates AND rotates - neither of which the Lorry, 3 ton, Derrick can do! However I'm led to revise my earlier assertion that the Trucks, Derrick (AUST) was the only CMP derrick produced - there was in fact one other variant fitting this definition, in a much more famous configuration featuring not one but TWO derricks!

Something else I learned about the derrick: "The device was named for its resemblance to a type of gallows from which a hangman's noose hangs. The derrick type of gallows in turn got its name from Thomas Derrick, an English executioner from the Elizabethan era." Fascinating!

[Mike Cecil]

Yep, missed the subtlety of the first post ..... but not this time round!

Mike C

[Richard Farrant]

In the past I worked with cranes a lot, on repairs and testing, one of the actions on the old rope controlled jibs (no hydraulics) was Derrick In and Derrick Out, this was dropping or raising the jib. My understanding of it, and the fact some are on a turntable is non-consequential. The CMP Derrick lorry does just that, it raises and lowers the jib/derrick.



Also ...just to throw another spanner in the works, the old oil wells with the pylon like structure, was called a derrick and all it did was to hoist up and down within the structure.

[Lang]

Richard,

I think we are getting in to navel gazing on this nomenclature. I reckon the bottom line is, the Brits named things and wrote their manuals with their language usage along with such weird (to the rest of the world) "accumulators, stranglers and dynamos" for batteries, chokes and generators. Just like we think an accumulator is a rich man and you thought back in the 40's battery was a criminal offence while we thought the same for stranglers.

A number of Australian versions of military vehicle manuals have a translation page with Australian, British and American columns for the names of various parts of a vehicle. It runs into dozens of items with Australian general usage being split halfway between British and American terms.

The only time you will hear Derrick here is in reference to boats, historic railway station cranes and sometimes high rise tower cranes are formally referred to correctly as derrick cranes.

I think "Derrick in and Derrick out" for raising and lowering a boom - sorry jib -is not a sustainable description for current use. Nearly all cranes now have extensions and unless we use "Erect and Flacid" for booms extended and retracted the terms "In and Out" must be sensibly used for the extension function and "Raising and Lowering" the boom used in their proper sense also.

The main thing is the people using the gear know what it means and even if the manuals used a Russian term for the equipment everyone would know what it was very quickly from common usage. How many M1's are there in the American system referring to equipment ranging from rifles, signal equipment, food processors to trucks. Nobody says "Private, wash the M1 Rotary potato peeler, 4 horsepower, portable" the cook will know from usage what the sergeant meant when he says "Private, wash the M1".

I will see you all at the Pedantics Anonymous meeting at 4.33 and 23 seconds at the town hall.

Lang

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lang

I think "Derrick in and Derrick out" for raising and lowering a boom - sorry jib -is not a sustainable description for current use. Nearly all cranes now have extensions and unless we use "Erect and Flacid" for booms extended and retracted the terms "In and Out" must be sensibly used for the extension function and "Raising and Lowering" the boom used in their proper sense also.

Hi Lang,
I am not really pedantic, but it seems that from some peoples interpretation the word Derrick must be a lifting apparatus that traverses, left and right, well that would have been unlikely on Mr Derrick's gallows
We were talking about 70 year old vehicles so equipped so nothing to do with current use.
To change lanes, the army here had Leyland recovery vehicles in the 1950's and they had hydraulic crane jibs, the action of elevating up or down was called "luffing". Not a term you see used on cranes.

Interesting discussion anyway

[Mike Cecil]

..... and a few more spanners, since we are continuing on this topic, from the Encyclopedia Britannica:

'Derrick, a type of crane; the name is derived from that of a famous early 17th century Tyburn hangman, and was originally applied as a synonym (see Cranes). The derrick of the petroleum industry is a skeleton framework or tower of wood or steel for hoisting or lowering from a fixed point. It is used to raise or drop the drilling tools and also to insert and remove the well casing or pipe.'

And from the Shorter Oxford: the original definition was simply 'A hangman; hanging; the gallows' . And on that note, I think I've 'hanged about' in this thread long enough.... I'm off to the Town Hall to meet up with Lang!

Mike C

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I'm off to the Town Hall to meet up with Lang!

Mike, I would join you two at the Town Hall, but you will probably be gone by the time I got there, its a long walk from here

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I'm off to the Town Hall to meet up with Lang!

Hurry up guys, I'm here waiting for you! I'm worried about my demountable crane, should I be calling it a derrick instead?