Heads Up: Restored C-60L Cab13 For Sale

[RichCam]

Hello,

This C-60L has been fully restored and is road worthy. I am not the owner of this vehicle but I am assisting in finding it a new home. It is a wonderful vehicle which was intended for shipment to Australia. It was produced in September of 1944 and was used as a water tanker before it was restored. I have resisted the temptation to add it to my collection. I have my hands full with current projects.

Serious purchasers - please contact me via PM or email.

Regards, Richard

[RichCam]

A couple of close up pictures of the C-60L data plates.

[Robert Bergeron]

OMG Rich, that is a nice truck !

[rob love]

Nice looking truck overall, but are those 16" tires on it?

[RichCam]

Rob,

It would appear that the C-60L is outfitted with 16" tires. I can verify if needed.

Richard

[Grant Bowker]

I have seen several other PE-197 contract trucks with 16" rims and the corresponding smaller axle ends on the front axle. I don't have documentary proof, but the proportion of that contract that I've seen with 16" wheels is high enough that I put it outside coincidence and into a probable defined feature. I can only speculate as to why 60 cwt should have 16" rims.
On other contracts, some 60 cwt ambulances were so equipped. Other possibilities - perhaps to conserve rubber, perhaps to make a common size tire for a particular group of trucks, perhaps to get a lower loading height, perhaps to allow a flat floor body when the 20" would have needed wheelhouses.

[Robert Bergeron]

Grant / Rob,

I don't remember where i read this but Grant you are right , the Australian contract trucks did have rims for the 16'' tires.

I have visited and ridden in this beautiful truck and it is a gem, a museum piece for sure but also a day to day driver.It is pristine.

No relation whatsoever with the seller whom i know and is a really great guy.

Grab it while you can.An opportunity like this passes once in a lifetime.

I am into 15 cwt trucks. Just bought a second one.So this one is not for me.

[Andrew]

an asking price would be nice

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

I don't remember where i read this but Grant you are right , the Australian contract trucks did have rims for the 16'' tires.

Could there be any connection with these trucks? I wonder if it was done to lower the gearing, I believe these radar trailers were extremely heavy.



MOOREBANK, NEW SOUTH WALES, AUSTRALIA. 1944-07-31. TRUCK "C" AND TRAILER "B" (ZP1), RADAR VEHICLES AT NO.3 SUB DEPOT, 5TH BASE ORDNANCE DEPOT.

[Bob Carriere]

Over the years I have kept a visual record of the various ID tags either seen or posted by others.

Low and behold I have that ID tag in my photolibrary BUT no caption of who or where.....still scratching my head.

Grant is correct in saying that we have seen a number of them from the Aussie contract..... we speculated that the contract ended when the conflict ended and these Aussie trucks were disposed on Canada.

Some have round roof hatches some don't.

They are all built on the smaller power train of the C15a with the same gear ratio...straight off the inventory shelf.

Steering box is also C15a.

Typically 2 speed T case and brake boosters.

We have also found sufficient examples of them built with either the 1940 Civilian rectangular instrument cluster or the later round dial. From the dates I have seen they range from April 44 to at least late September 44 possibly October 44 some just a day apart.

These are the occasions where I miss having David Hayward in the background to help us out.

It is a fine example of a job well done!!

Bob C

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Richard

That is definitely one fine looking truck, hope it finds a home with some one that will really appreciate it.

Now to my heading "Count the Lug Nuts" by my count there are eight which should be the same as the 20". (HUPs have 6).

To improve the road speed of my `41 C60L which had the 16" rims I installed a set of 20" so that I could run 11:00x20 tires. So if any perspective buyer is concerned about the road speed issue that is the easy fix. But the 16" rims have the advantage of letting the truck fit into a smaller garage.

Unfortunately you can not put the 16"s on a regular C60S or L with the larger brake drums and front end knuckles.

Keep us posted.

Cheers Phil

[Gerry]

First off I want to thank Richard for posting my C60L.
I have more pictures, icluding the restauration, and I am ready to negotiate with anyone who is serious. I also have a spare engine, the original 216 which ran well, and a spare front axle. The truck has a fully rebuild 261 with only a few hundred miles on it and runs great. It has the vacuum assisted brakes which really makes a difference. Nothing was cut or damaged in replacing the engine as the 261 has the same foot print as the original.
You can reach me at 450-539-4172 or at Townshippers@aol.com
Might entertain trades as part of a deal.
Cheers,
Gerry

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Gerry

A Pat 13 C60L with a 261 engine should make this one great truck to drive. My Pat 13 Radio truck became a real pleasure to drive when I put a 261 in. Make it so much more comfortable to drive one the roads today. Will hold speed with traffic and you are not going crazy down shifting on steep grades.

The brake booster also help make this a real drivable truck.

The 261 with the running 216 as a spare that was good thinking.

Again hope it finds a good home.

Cheers Phil

[Marc Montgomery]

Robert you should have bought mine..It was complete, and an original and extremely rare winch model.. and a beauty driver.. drove it back and forth to Ottawa a few times.. and went on the Belgian tour too. It had a 235.. the minimun you'd want.. I would have put a 261 in it if I had had the time, and money. Unfortunately I sold it, to out west..

It was also a PE-197 (1944) but with its orig 20in rims. and it was destined for a radar train which fits as it had an REL tag in the cab, and the winch. It was certainly not built with C-15 parts.

Also original square hatch, not round, and the later spare tire carrier. The truck was original having been purchased from the military directly to the small town municipality, where it spend most of its decades of service, inside the fire hall.
When I bought it, I was only the second owner !

What are difficult to find for this are the things like the large storage boxes and POW carriers. Shovel mounts on the box on passenger side, and pick and helve on box driver side. And details like the passenger floor mounted grab handle.

Never went for a key start.. I liked the switch and floor start lever...

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

....
Never went for a key start.. I liked the switch and floor start lever...

Hi Marc

I always felt that CMPs were inherently protected from theft from the casual modern thief. In many countries they are going to climb into the wrong side of the cab in the first place. Then they have to actually be able to read to figure out which lever does what. Then they are going to be limited to about 15 MPH as escape speed because they won't be able to shift out of second gear assuming they can figure out that the can start it in 2nd.

Having said all of that I have added either a fuel shutoff valve or switch to kill the electric fuel pump as a real deterrent. Figure if they are going to steal it then getting it running only to have it die once on the road is more effective.

But back to Gerry's truck, when you sell it hope you will be sure plug the new owner into the MLU and CMP community if they are not already familiar with it.

Cheers Phil

[Gerry]

Hi Phil,
Thanks for your comments and I will be sure to get the new owner onto MLU. I have an ignition switch cut off key but the starter is still the large floor lever.
Cheers,
Gerry

[Jordan Baker]

Just as an aside, the data plates that came with my CMP are very close to this one. However I was told my cab was from a C60 (its now on a C15a chassis). I cant verify it but I know at lease the dash was.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Jordan

Not sure if there would be specific differences between the cab 13 of a C15,C30 or C60...... welll yes the obvious differences in the floor plate for the 2 speed T case.......

Remember that the Aussie contract was C60 with C15a small axle power train WITH the 2 speed T case. I have seen such trucks a few days apart in the construction dates with rectangular instrument clusters of the 1940 as well as the laetr round dials. Some with and some with out rood hatches.

Maybe GM was cleaning up on what was left on the inventory/shelves and gambling on such hungry clients it would not be noticed.... besides a lot of them never got to destination but in Davy Jones' locker.

Just out of curiosity.... what kind of instruments do you have...... besides the accordion you hide under your bed.

Cheers

[Jordan Baker]

Maybe it was just the dash that came from a C60. My dash has round gauges.

[Bob Carriere]

The "blue" engine cover I brought down for you to try slipped in place like it was meant to do. I was thinking later on the origin of the engine cover.
It came from a C60L Aussie project rolling frame I acquired years ago.

No wonder it fitted so easily on yours.

Your old engine cover was dropped off by Grant On Sunday.....thanks for taking it to Acton.

Bob C

[Grant Bowker]

At the risk of confusing things more, the parts books C15A-04 and C60S-03 each list the same two Motor Housings (the official term for the doghouse) for the 2nd type cab (Cab 13) with the note that when stock of 5804735 is depleted 5815002 should be used. This suggests that the two are interchangable but Jordan, Bob, Rob Clarke and I have all seen that there are (at least) two styles of cab frame and (at least) two shapes of doghouse that have different profiles along their join line so that they only fit the appropriate opposite part.

The same two part numbers are found in parts list 197 covering all models from C8 to C60L and CGT without any notes in any of the parts lists about only for arctic or cold weather equipped models.
The C60X-04 parts list gives the normal 5815002 but also gives 5825543 as being for use with arcticized equipment and also lists separate cab lower frames for "not used with heater and defroster option", "used with heater and defroster option", "not used with wireless supression option, aticized equiment or heater and defroster option", "used with wireless supression option" and "used with articized equipment".

The C15A-04 and C60X-04 are the last versions shown to be published according to a listing of pats lists published 1949, however the same list of lists shows C60S-04 and C60L-04 as having published but I don't have copies to look at to see if they show more choices of doghouse. C15A-04, C60S-03 and C60L-03 all list multiple cab lower frames paralleling those in C60X-04 without referencing a later doghouse than 5815002. If anyone has access I would be interested to know if later doghouse covers are referenced. The Chevrolet arctic equipment maual does not mention a separate part number for the doghouse but does mention the ones for the lower cab frame.

Jordan's original engine cover had the extra openings in the top face that may be associated with wading equipment. I don't have access to a Chevrolet manual on their wadeproofing kit to be able to tell if this gives clues on whether there was a separate doghouse for wadeproofed vehicles. (The Ford manual for wadeproffing equipment doesn't seem to list separate sheet metal but shows multiple vent lines passing inside the cab near the windshield center post.)

[Marc Montgomery]

My entirely complete PE-197 1944 had the later round guages, and the 2-speed T-case but I never used it. It still had the original tyres on it when I got it I believe they were 1050x20... Man were they heavy !!! I replaced them with NOS 900x20 military.. the originals were about 3 times as heavy
I only ever had to use the 4WD a couple of times, once in very soft earth with the truck sunk to the diffs.. both times the 4WD worked superbly.
It always started and drove like a dream; a regrettable sale for a number of reasons
.

[Marc Montgomery]

I think Gerry has had this truck a long time. Dont know who made the box, but on my original the wheel wells extended to the inside. Also all these boxes should have metal rubbing strips running the length of the box floor. These are still standard size.. I think something like 1" by 1/4" ( maybe 3/8") x 12'
I think there should be 3. (although maybe 5..memory is a little fuzzy) one dead centre, and the 2 others equidistant on either side, and possibly two more closely aligned with the inner wheel wells.
Again these are standard still avail strips that can easily be added with short welds along their sides about every 2ft or so

My orig tailgate only had two footsteps, not sure if I've ever seen four. but they look well done.

Do you have the big attachment/restraining bar part that fits into the three holes in front of the box? (should be five holes at the front- one on either side for the top bows- 3 middle for attach/restraining bars --cab protection from cargo?)
It should be fairly easy to get one made up.. a squared-U shape with a central support (three down tubes) and a cross bar almost the width of the box.

The top bows extended down onto stops inside the side supports channels about a foot. eg nearly to the depth of the wheel well.

The front of the box should not have openings (nor at the back) in the bottom exterior channel-beam-rail or whatever you want to call it-- they were cut, maybe about 10" back (?) and welded to create a shallow angle inward to meet with the front of the box so as to be tapered and not to have a sharp edge to catch people or objects.

Again the tool boxes and especially pow carriers will be hard to get.
The tool boxes would be easy to get made,, and i suppose the POW carriers could be repro'd fairly easily although not exactly as the originals..all it takes is $

I havent seen this truck in person for eons, but Gerry is a reliable and honest person

There was another guy had a 3 ton in Longueil a few years ago, and when selling it, was telling a story about it's provenance, EXCEPT he was telling people the story of MY truck..not his !!!!! ie was used as a snowplough/firetruck in the small village of Hudson.

Mine spent almost its entire life indoors and cared for by the firemen, and so thats why it had so little rust and remained fairly orig.

I was promised (sincerely) it would remain in Canada, remain in its new "museum" home to be used in parades for veterans etc, and not be sold.. wonder where it is now?

[George McKenzie]

I had two CMP 60's stored in my yard about 1960 I now have one back and the other is in the Comox BC Air base museum Mine is Chassis# 60 448.M-W Cab 15 Serial # 3844334575 Engine # PR3975100 Order #PE-197-11 Date APRL 24-44 Model# C60448 M-GS-15 .It was remodeled by Research Enterprises LTD to pull a radar station . This truck has 20" civilian tires .I have the original manual for the truck If the new owner needs any information about his truck contact me ,George

[Marc Montgomery]

George that would have been the same contract as mine.. Alas dont have the serial or date, but I think it was May. Did yours have an original winch? Mine did. This was very rare on a 60, and I was told it was used to hoist the radar masts into place.

I remember in my search for parts, I came across a guy with about 40 crates of orig wheel scotches. Wanted to know if i would buy them all...damned if i can remember at all where or who it was... wonder what happened to them.
I bought a crate (two) for my truck-

Actually, I not seem to recall that the top bows had collars and pins set so the bows were only about maybe 8in (?) and then if you wanted to lower the top for reduced height roughly equivalent to cab height, you pulled the pins out (attached by small linked chain to the collars, and the bows slid down to the stops in the side channels.

I see the Stevensville (ont) group is selling a 1944 C60...looks like a very good basis for a resto.

[rob love]

Not wheel scotches but the local surplus guy has crates of the winch anchor kits (holdfasts?), consisting of an anchor and a bunch of large pegs to hold it to the ground. The winch cable would be attached to those and the truck self extricated.

[George McKenzie]

There was a site bout my truck about a year ago . This truck was for the RCAF used in Canada only .It is painted yellow and had a winch between the back wheels for setting up the radar tower .Mine is 53 and the one at Comox is 52 .Rob ,I have a set of anchor pins for my DT969 They are about 3 ft long and 1" diamiter . will a channel iron frame .

[Bob Carriere]

....damned if i can remember at all where or who it was... wonder what happened to them......

First thing to go is the memory Marc..... then you rlast tooth will fall out....

The Scotch guy was Dennis Walker from the St Catherines area ..... got a few from him a pair travelled to Phil W. for his cab 12.

Dennis as retired from GM his last big farm move, which followed your dealing with him, resulted in a thinning of the herd BUT he still has an impressive collection. He is still buying and collecting.

Not sure if he still has the wheel scotches available.

Cheers

[Marc Montgomery]

Sorry Bob....i forget...what was it we were talking about again?? teehee

Dennis Walker?? St Catharines...seems a bit out of my way...but maybe (??)
Other things I've forgotten...
-the guy who had about 12 restorable Gpw's and MBs in his barn..somewhere in Oshawa whitby area (???).. said I could have them all if I gave him one restored one back....no idea who or where..
-a guy with about a dozen or so orig 16in tyres- wouldn't part with them.. a house mover-said no other tire was low like that and that strong..

[Bob Carriere]

Dennis is the one that had all these machinist CMP boxes ...or stores boxes covered with chicken wire to hold up the tarps..... you featured them in Convoy hoping some would be purchased-saved...... I think most got scrapped and he saved only a few during the last move.

How time flies......

Cheers