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#1
07-10-04, 03:45
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Canada’s Yellow submarines (i.e. lemons)
One of Canada’s almost new submarines, which were bought from the British, has claimed its first victim.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...ers041006.html I don’t know who to be madder at. Our government which could not resist a good deal, or the Brits who knew a sucker when they saw one. The Canadians had just taken possession of the sub from the British three days earlier. Last edited by John McGillivray; 07-10-04 at 05:49. 
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#2
07-10-04, 04:16
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Re: Canada’s Yellow submarines (i.e. lemons)
Quote:
God Damn the Liberal bastards in Ottawa for emasculating our once proud and capable Canadian Forces. If anyone wants to take issue with me on this, get out your dueling weapons...I'll have at thee, tooth and nail!
__________________
PRONTO SENDS
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#3
07-10-04, 04:19
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I'll be your second, Mr. Skagfeld.
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#4
07-10-04, 05:19
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Couldn't resist this one. The Gun Registry, a personal burr beneath my saddle is fast approaching the $2B mark if I understand correctly. CTV news quoted the subs at a cost approaching $1B with refits etc. When I went to school 2 plus 1 equal 3. CTV also quoted the cost of brand new submarines at $750M each. Kinda looks like we could have bought 4 new ones instead of the lemons we have been bamboozled with. Politics and economics 101, I know its probably not this simple, at least to the idiots we have in government...And another thing, what about the "G Wagens"? At the fear of sounding pro-American, I stilll think we should have looked a bit closer to home and perhaps bought Humvees instead. Unfortunately our government has continually decided that it is in our best interest to contract our defence work out to foreign governments and to purchase the most obscure and antiquated crap we can buy for the money.
Obviously our leaders have forgotten the 750,000 mvs we built right here at home during the Second World War, not to mention all the ships, planes etc etc.
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#5
07-10-04, 17:05
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Hi,
They are not that bad submarines, probably more suited in this day and age to the Nuclear subs that we have in England. I was only with the crew last week up in Scotland, so it is quite shocking to read this, and for any of us that work on these vessels it is a very sobbering thought as well. My thoughts are with all those who have been effected. Ben Stephens 1944 MkIIA Leyland Hippo 1943 Ford GPW CM4242373 1938 Hillman Minx
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#6
07-10-04, 18:44
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Too late.
I hate that these kinds of events always become issues TOO LATE FOR SOME .... AFTER ... the avoidable and unneccesary expense of someones life ...the impact and loss is huge, outwardly, and never had to be.
What happened to realistic quality control checks by BOTH seller and buyer, whoever, of the wiring system and all other functions BEFORE that sub (or plain/train/truck/bus/whatever) sailed? How many people have to keep dieing because the real simple effort that was possible was simply not done, or not done thoroughly?  Karmen 
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#7
07-10-04, 19:06
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Sad Day
All our hearts go out to the Saunders family. It is a sad day when anyone is injured or loses their life in the service of our country. Let us not forget the crew of the Chicoutimi who have lost a family member too. Love him or hate him Lt(N) Saunders was still one of theirs. Sympathies to all.
At least the Prime Minister himself spoke on the issue instead of one of those endlessly anonymous defence ministers. Serving in the armed forces, even in peace time, can be a risky business. From the recruit guarding the POL dump sneaking a smoke to dropping a wrench accross the charging terminals in the back of a rad truck. Danger lurks. Chris: A note on buying abroad or building at home: We did build at home. It was called the Western Star LSVW. That too was a huge boondogle. Frames that ripped, no spare parts, not field serviceable, way underpowered, and uncomfortable as hell to drive - and those were its good points. It looked good in the compound, worked well on pavement ... it approached the right idea but design engineering and concept production did'nt get the consideration of 60 years of military truck design experience. Always someone knows better... JD
__________________
Here we go in bull low, stuck in four wheel drive....
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#8
07-10-04, 19:21
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There's a few points one has to remember here. Those British Upholder class subs were probably the best diesel powered subs ever built. You can talk about new subs but I doubt if you could find anybody who's building anything but nukes, and everybody knows Canada's stand on them. Canada needs subs to meet their NATO commitment so there aren't many alternatives. The Brits demobilized these subs to go nuclear but we don't have that choice. One of the biggest problems is probably finding people who know how to run and service them.
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#9
07-10-04, 19:30
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Compared to our Nukes these submarines are much better, Extreamely quiet, and very efficient.
The S class Subamarines we are running in the royal navy now are out of date at Best, Sovereign was commisioned in the 70s and is now over 30 years old. The Systems on the Upholder class are in advance of this and are much more reliable than a nuclear sub, as well as not having the inherrant dangers that go with a nuclear sub. The maintenance is still contracted to companies such as the one I work for, and we have been out on the upholder class a few times (I stress to add that it wasnt our kit that failed!) In fact the Subs that give us the most work are S & T class ones, Upholder and V class subs have very few problems. Diesel Electric subs are in my opinion the way forward in modern warfare, and I think that had the UK government foreseen this, and the changing role from the old Cold war Hunter Killers we would not be seeing Astute! Just my two pence worth! Ben Stephens 1944 MkIIa Leyland Hippo 1943 GPW CM4242373 9138 Hillman Minx
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#10
07-10-04, 20:05
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Quote:
These days the industrial base is no longer present in countries like Canada, and one has to revert to importing vehicles, aircraft and naval vessels. The Mercedes G-wagen is the best jeep-type vehicle one can buy for its money today, the Hummer really is a medium sized truck. I'm sure if the Commonwealth was contracting for half a million vehicles again, any manufacturer would gladly set up a new factory within Canada's borders. And it works the other way round too - just ask Stewart Loy about his job. H.
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#11
07-10-04, 20:50
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Quality Control
Quote:
Reminds me of craking open a 'put it together yourself" thingy ... I'm English ... directions come in another language ...  Different level, I know. On a level of military function ... well ... using unsafe ways to try and uphold security is doomed to failures and losses. Wouldn't perfection be nice? Once again ... priorities aren't what they need to be, for whatever reasons. (that's how this story effects my thoughts)
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#12
08-10-04, 13:17
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GM of C
Hanno, as you know GM of Canada built Mosquitoes in their Oshawa plant.
Our thoughts go out to the family of the officer that died on the sub. We now here that the 'boat is being towed back to presumably Scotland. It is interesting reading all the comments from both sides and The London Times' editorial. However the UK has had its fair share of white elephants..look at the fiascos over the Nimrod AEW, the Nimrod rebuilds that are still ongoing, the Chinooks that canot supposedly fly at night and in bad weather, the fitment of cannon to the Eurofighter Typhoons for the RAF...what's next? On the other hand my dad will confirm that when the levers are pulled collectively the Ministry of Defence and private industry in the UK can really get their acts together. The example is the Sea King AEW that occupied my dada and his colleagues at EMI adapting the Searchwater radar that had its basis in the H2S of the Forties, to a helicopter. EMI employees worked many hours of overtime over seven days a week, and then it was over to Westlands at Yeovil for them to adapt the radar, working with a small EMI team.  The above is a montage showing the Oshawa-built Mosquitoe plus various guns that they produced...20 mm Polsten for example, and snowmobile [Bombardier] plus the possible 'white elephant'..the 6-pounder.I assume the machineguns were produced in the Oshawa Gun Plant. I am not qualified to comment on whether the 6-pounder was a wartime Canadian waste of time. The evidence that I have is that it took so long for production to set up that it was obsolete arguably before production was underway. Regina Industries Limited the former Regina, Sask. motor assembly plant produced the carriages, but it was Border City Industries Limited in Windsor that produced the barrels. It is a pity that no change to 17-pounder production was made before 1944 when the Goverment contracts dried up and RIL was doomed to a withering decline and closure post-war. Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 08-10-04 at 13:31.
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