M38A1 CDN2 and CDN3 Differences

[chris vickery]

I can tell you from experience that there are the things that are "correct" pertaining to either the CDN2 or CDN3 and then there is reality.
I have a couple of both and really, at this stage in the game they are a mish mash of parts.
Example, someone will say that headlight guards were not used on CDN3 jeeps, yet I have an example in the yard right now that has them.
CDN2 and CDN3 jeeps used both slotted and solid hood hinges, I have jeeps that have one of each...
Then there is the issue of the smg mount or fire extiinguisher bracket. My jeep have holes for both on the dash.
The fact is that the M38A1 saw a service life from 1953 until the early 80's, during which time there were all sorts of modifications, both official and non-oficial, with some being an interpretation of the CFTO issued.
Then there is the fact that many were issued to militia troops and that is a whole different game again.
I am restoring my CDN3 to reflect its lineage to 1 Hussars which was an armd recce militia regt from the London area. I was able to trace the CFR# and prove the lineage as such. It will have all the bits and bobs associated with it as used in the time frame of the mid 1970s.
Not sure I have been of any help but thats my take on the A1 anyhow.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The gas tank on the CDN 3 is much heavier steel than on the CDN 1 and 2. Imagine butt welded steel plate vs rolled and spot (er?) seams on an origami of stampings. I just got a replacement CDN 3 tank from another MLU member, and questioned why it is so heavy compared to the other loose tank I have. The installed gas tank on my CDN 3 is identical to the new one - and it was sold as being for a CDN 3. There new one does not look like any of the pictures circulating on the 'net, and the old one looks like every example of an after market part.

[rob love]

Terry: If your gas tank is the type with the edges welded, and somewhat squarish, then it is one of the replacement tanks. In the 1980s, Jeep restoration was no to the level it is today, and as well Canada was one of the few countries still using them in a regular capacity, so many parts were having to be made here in Canada. I found that the bulk of the replacement tanks had issues with the neck at the fuel cap, requiring some adjustment of the cap or the neck to sort of work properly. I also recall that even though by the 80s the M38 was long gone, supply had a run of M38 tanks built. Because of the duality of the parts manual, mechanics would constantly order the wrong gas tank or the wrong engines, causing pull to be created on the supply system, and it somewhat blindly re-acting. The M38 flathead engines were used as a replacement engine for the WW2 vintage generator sets which remained in service until the late 80s, so there was a reason for them to be in the system.

Chris: As you mentioned, the Jeeps were in service for a long time, and as such parts were occasionally cannibalised or ordered which would result in earlier (or later) parts being applied to different years. But from the factory, the closed hinges on the Cdn 3 were standard by everything I have seen. As to the extinguisher/SMG mount, that was a modification to re-locate the two. Some were done and some weren't. The priority of the modification often dictated what got done. A pri A modification (like the bellcrank modification) had to be done before operation...pri B and C mods may never be done.

So here is the list from the top of my head on the Cdn3 differences over the Cdn2. I'll include the ones already mentioned:

Seatbelts: factory installed on Cdn3, retrofitted on Cdn2. You can tell by the welded on square re-enforcement plates on the Cdn3 vs the Cdn2

Frame: Cdn2 and earlier would crack at the front spring hangers of the rear axle. The Cdn3 had re-enforcement plates at that location boxing that portion of the frame

Axles: Rear axle of the Cdn3 was a semi floating one piece axle, vs the trouble prone 2 piece axles of the earlier Jeeps. They were a fine spline diff vs the coarse spline of the earlier jeeps, and also had a different bearing arrangement. They were also a larger diameter requiring different U bolts.

Brakes: As mentioned before, the Cdn3 has larger self actuating brakes, vs the earlier fixed anchor brakes of the earlier Jeeps.

Mirror: Right hand mirror was factory on the Cdn3....it was an add on on the earlier Jeeps. Later they moved them to the fenders (mod was not the best....it needed a third arm to really be effective as the vibration was so bad it would case the mirrors to vibrate to the point of uselessness.)

Cdn 3 had the solid state flasher system. From the factory, the Cdn2 had the large box with relays on the cowl, although as time went by they were normally changed to the solid state style on failure.

Right rear taillight: Cdn2 had the large hole plated over, while Cdn3 never had the hole. The mounting plate inside the body did remain on the Cdn3 however.

Hood hinges: Closed hinges on the Cdn3. Cdn 2 had a slot so the hood could be removed for servicing. If you forgot to do up the hood latches on a Cdn2, the hood could flip up, slip out of it's hinges, and bounce off the driver's head while driving.

Many of the earlier modifications for the M38 and the M38A1 were re-issued for the Cdn2 and Cdn3. The headlight guards was one of them and was not necessary. The guards were not for driving through the brush, it was for when you hinged down the grill to clean the debris from the front of the rad. Without the guards it was possible to crack the headlights when you folded the grill forward. Since the Cdn2 and Cdn3 did not use the hinged grill, the headlight guard modification was really redundant. If you read the modification, it mentions folding the grill.

Heater: Cdn 3 had heater from the factory, apparently the Cdn 2 it was installed by the supporting base maintenance.

There are a few other differences, and if you check the Cdn3 parts supplement over the main parts manual as well as the Cdn 2 supplement, you can figure out what most of them are. In my opinion the Cdn 3 is far superior to the Cdn2, mainly because of the solid axle, the improved brakes, and the frame re-enforcement.

[oldlithgow]

Thanks For the info, i will need to acquire a CDN3 parts supplement. Is there any copies of it to be had?

[rob love]

I believe Brian Asbury sells the parts manual with Cdn2 and Cdn3 supplement. He may well be able to sell you just the supplement if you are missing it. If you don't have the complete Canadian parts list, I highly recommend it. It is a very all encompassing manual.