Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mrs Vampire]

Lynn ...yes it is easily touch up able and can be painted over. painting over old coats only needs prep wash to arrive at good adhesion.

Brushing on a bit here and there over sprayed coats are nearly undetectable.

The military enamels used in Australia have to be able to be used in the field with primitive equipment by untrained troops. That is about the same as the requirement during WWII.

[Mrs Vampire]

Values for British Standards WWII paint from BS987C 1942

L* a* b* R G B
SCC 1A 24 3 5 64 55 50
SCC 2 22 24 12 89 37 37
SCC 4 44 17 17 140 94 77
SCC 5 62 2 22 166 147 111
SCC 7 34 1 11 89 80 63
SCC 10 37 30 25 140 65 48
SCC 11 25 .-1 10 64 59 44
SCC 11A 37 52 40 166 35 23
SCC 15 32 0 27 89 75 32
SCC 16 22 2 16 64 52 30

[Mrs Vampire]

Another discovery today on the rear armour of the Stuart. Nice blue stencils for the equipment . This one for the AXE

The stencil is under the Light Stone paint but above the Green .

All other stencils I have found so far have been black

[Mrs Vampire]

Reading the documents I came acros this by the Inspector general of Munitions October 1943.

I completely substantiates Mike Cecils position on the local purchase and mixing of camouflage paints and the paucity of information supplied to those applying it.

This from one of Australia's primary Ordinance Workshops in our largest manufacturing centre within a stones throw of the paint manufacturer and twenty kilometers from the Camouflage Establishment at North Head.

If it ain't possible to get it right in those circumstances ..it just ain't possible to get it right.

The paint referred to B.A.L.M 369 is one of the Alkyd enamel lines ( spraying superseded by 388 and 393 in the fifties) the Nitrocellulose line was 200 series paint.

[Mrs Vampire]

Then this on Khaki Green N0 3 for which I cannot find a paint chip but is apparently close to one on the War memorials samples.

[Big D]

Hi Gina,

Good on you for keeping this interesting thread going.

What do you think would be the best photographic example right now of a restored aussie vehicle with the disruptive khaki green and light earth combination. Do you have any links or pictures?

I am going to try my luck in mixing up the Humbrol colour combinations suggested so that I can pass onto my paint supplier:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...hlight=humbrol

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...hlight=humbrol

Some photos along with the Humbrol paint mix are probably going to be as close as I can get to the real thing.

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Darryl

I think all of my high falutin ideas are out the window following some more reading on archive material.

Australian Khaki Green No 3 has turned up and I can find nothing on that from the Camouflage committee yet . I cant find a reference to it other than in words... It just pops up in the files early 1943... and referenced to another colour "medium green" which likewise just floats there .

I am settling on getting samples from my vehicles and trying to figure out how to get a near exact match to them. I have enough unfaded original on both to satisfy my pernicikityness.

The archives show a clear disconnect from the Camouflage committee, the Paint Committee , the Army and so on...then to top it off the folk at the coal face dont have a clue about all this and are going it alone.

I will have a look at the samples down at the AWM , some in Victoria and elsewhere. I can get my hands on the Australian Emergency Standard and will post a copy here when I have one.
But for me the situation has evolved to finding the best way to get colour from my vehicle without trucking a Tank down to the Paint shop !

To answer your question I have not seen any army vehicle repainted that is close to the colours on my Stuart.

I propose a number of reasons. ( but reserve the right to change at a moments notice)

1 It is assumed the Stuarts , being American , were imported in US Lusterless olive Drab. The evidence on my machine is that it was imported painted in British 223 ( or similar) because it was a commonwealth lend lease export. I suspect some Stuarts were imported in US colours because the documentation records the importation of M3s in march 1942 with miles on the clock and US fit out on board...my guess is used tanks from US army.

2 no one has researched the light stone completely or it was a variety of local colours. Certainly nothing I have seen on a vehicle is remotely like the colour chips from the AWM or Tonys door both of which are very similar to the colour on my Stuart. (BTW none of the greens on Tonys door are like the green on my stuart but they are like the green on my Blitz. )

To confound me completely I have discovered equipment stenciling on the rear armour deck that is obviously US army stencil blue!!! All the other Stencils on the Tank at the time of export were Black!!!

I have seen posted on Keiths Facebook photos of Australian Stuarts that have apparently carried US W numbers and Commonwealth T numbers...indicating they were issued to the US Army prior to export so I thought they would have been painted US olive Drab. Weirdly they numbers seem to have been painted white... and both behind the grouser rails which makes no sense at all to me. For those machines knowledge of their history would be needed to clear that up.

In the end I can make my own Tank quite authentic and document the provenance that informs my decisions. ( I think I may even leave some small areas of original paint exposed for later reference and historic interest.) But to speak for the fleet as a whole....wouldn't touch that with a barge pole .....save to say some of the schemes seem quite strange and I would love to hear the owners story about how they arrived at them .

Along the way some interesting discoveries are still coming to light . Early riveted M3 with square rear armour with horseshoe turrets ...in Australian service 1943!! Well why not...pull the turret of one and stick it on another and in doing so completely ruin the lovely M3 , M3 hybrid, M3A1 narrative ...then I thinks to meself...well if they can stuff around with the Paint Narrative why not the vehicle Narrative...

So I am minded of conversations I had with folk down at the AWM when the P-40 was going together....that in the end even with all the evidence to hand you have to choose a moment in time that you want your artifact to represent. They all changed from delivery to disposal with all sorts of combinations of paint , camo schemes , equipment and fitouts.

I have opted for a moment in time when the 13th were deployed down to Bribie island for exercises June 1943..... I am thinking Friday June the 18th just after stand down