Penguin Mkll

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Joe Lorenzino

It is a Mk3. serial #77, dated 1949. Not running, but with new track belts.
I would really like to get a copy of the parts book, or any other manuals that might be out there.

The data plate in Convoy Magazine issue 29 seems to be of Penguin Mark II, serial #30, built June 1947. That Penguin data plate seems to be showing the maintenance manual as "SNOW-B" possibly followed by a number. It would make sense if it were "SNOW-B3" as that is the manual for the Armoured Snowmobile Mark I and the Penguin seems to have developed from the Armoured Snowmobile. (Maintenance manuals Snow-B1 and Snow-B2 applied to the Bombardier snowmobiles with skis for steering.)
The parts manuals for the Armoured Snowmobile Mark I, B-SNOW-03, and for the Penguin Mk 3, CV-1, list many major parts in common, including engine, transmission and suspension, so it would be believable that the maintenance manual for the Armoured Snowmobile could have also been used for the Penguin although I'm not sure this was the case.
If you can decipher what manuals are listed on the data plate of your Penguin I can provide reproductions of all of the manuals I have mentioned. (If your data plate is not readable my best guess is parts list CV-1, stated to be for the Penguin Mk 3, and maintenance manual SNOW-B3, for the Armoured snowmobile but covers major components as used in the Penguin Mk 3)

[Joe Lorenzino]

New computer.....new operating system.......all designed to better provide the user with an Expanded and Enhanced Experience in Frustration!!

Will see if the "automatically resized" pictures come through in anything other than thumbnails....

Please PM me re: Manuals Thanks

[Grant Bowker]

Following the lead from Joe on his data plate, there are several more manuals that apply to various Marks of penguin.

One is the "Provisional Operator's Manual" P2-OM1 for the Penguin Mark II. To quote from the introduction - "This Operator's Manual has been compiled as a guide to efficient driving and routine maintenance of Penguin Mk.II Vehicles. A combination of new text and modified existing Snowmobile literature, it is made up of five sections containing information and data as follows:" The five sections are General Data, Driving Instructions, Lubrication, Period Maintenance, Wiring Diagrams and Miscellaneous Illustrations. The sections on Lubrication and Period Maintenance are mainly copied and modified from SNOW-B3 (the Maintenace Manual for the Armoured Snowmobile). The drawing of the data plate for the Penguin Mark II lists the Maintenance manual for the Mark II as being SNOW-B3/P2, a clear demonstration of the origin of the Penguin. I have never seen the SNOW-B3/P2 Manual.

Another manual is the EME instructions 010, 013, 014 and 017 for the Snowmobile, Canadian Mk 3. The contents of these seem to different than I would have expected from Joe's data plate. They are:
010 Data Summary
013 Instr 1 1st Echelon work - lubrication
013 Instr 2 1st Echelon work - engine
013 Instr 3 1st Echelon work - fluid coupling and transmission
013 Instr 4 1st Echelon work - prop shaft and U joints
013 Instr 5 1st Echelon work - driving member
013 Instr 6 1st Echelon work - suspensionn
013 Instr 7 1st Echelon work - fuel and exhaust
013 Instr 8 1st Echelon work - cooling
013 Instr 9 1st Echelon work - electrical
014 Instr 2 2nd-4th Echelon work - engine
014 Instr 3 2nd-4th Echelon work - fluid coupling and transmission
014 Instr 5 2nd-4th Echelon work - driving member
014 Instr 6 2nd-4th Echelon work - suspensionn
014 Instr 7 2nd-4th Echelon work - fuel and exhaust
014 Instr 8 2nd-4th Echelon work - cooling
017 Mod Instr 1 Instal of starter safety switch
017Mod Instr 2 Removal of wade-proofed distributor ventilation
At first glance it seems that the 014 series might be incomplete, but the sections that appear to be left out, for example Lubrication, wouldn't really have any content needing the skills of 2nd to 4th echelon technicians.

[Kirk Armitage]

Joe , next time you have your camera out, can a few pics be taken of the running gear ? Would be interesting to see the walking beam shaft size as it is not supported on the outside like the later muskeg.
Thanks Kirk Armitage

[Joe Lorenzino]

Here are a couple of pictures of the walking beam shaft, and the tensioner shaft. The walking beam shaft has a round tubing top gusset, and 2 angled side gussets bracing it to the chassis. Not sure if the tensioner runs all the way across, or is 2 stub shafts.



I got a surprize at work the other day, as the previous owner was in and dropped of a complete engine gasket set, and a hardbound copy of maintenance manual SNOW-B3. The book has an old label on it from "Shamrock Const. Ltd".
Today I stopped in at the yard where the "extra" engine was left in storage a few years ago. The owner has since passed away, but his son is going to let me go on a hunt for it. He doesn't remember it being brought in, but thinks that if it was, it might have been put inside of a van or bus out in the yard. They have been scrapping out a lot of the older stuff, but I am hoping it might still be out there.

[Kirk Armitage]

Excellent pics Joe, not to sure how that tensioner works, recognize the spring in a can and tire setup. Mr Bombardier definitely deviated on his later designs(muskeg), from this setup.
Thanks Kirk Armitage

[Joe Lorenzino]

I got a phone call this week from a fellow in Regina SK, who has just recently purchased another Penguin MK3. It is running & driving (with a Buick engine). It was advertised on Kijiji Regina, and was located only minutes out of the city. His interest is in snow vehicles, and he also has a refurbished SureGo. His shop in Regina is named Precision Motorsports, and his name is C M Ross.

He is looking for information/parts to start a restoration on this unit, and is interested in contacting other Penguin owners.

[Bob Phillips]

I would like to post a few questions about the much discussed topic of CDN snowmobiles.

1 Did anyone come up with an easy way to identify a mk2 vs mk3 penguin?
what are the major differences?

2 Were mk1 Penguins (15 for Muskox) new machines or converts from armoured snowmobiles? I have found some detailed pics of them being built at Ottawa car & Foundry in 1946 and there is no sign of front armour ( as with mk2s)

3 The DND snowmobile projects did not end with the Penguin. In 1947 DND had prototypes built of a 3/4 ton oversnow vehicle (Beaver) and also 2.5 ton vehicle (Wapiti). Are there any surviving Beaver oversnow vehicles?? They were Ford built using a V8 engine.These were not completed until 1951=52. By the way the final costs on these last two vehicles were extremely high ($3-400,000 per vehicle)...B.P.

[Marc Montgomery]

Bob- I remember there was a Wapiti parked in a small display area just inside the Longue Pointe base in east end Montreal..along with a couple other older MVs and an old M-109 howitzer. I remember thinking at the time it was a fairly big snow machine...at the time I had never seen one before.... This would have been late 1990;s?
When i finally found out what it was, I went back to Longue Pointe, but it was gone although the M-109 was still there.
No idea where it went...no one seems to know.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

The primary WW2 use of Cadillac V8s was Stuart tanks (series 42) and Chaffee and LVT3 (series 44). I believe that the core engine is identical but the 44s have a drive shaft with universal joints threaded through under the inlet manifold. This is to drive the fans on a chaffee. The LVT3 inherrited this arrangement and I would expect that the Armoured Snowmobile / Penguin did too. The Hydramatic gearbox used in Stuart had a reverse gear but the ones used in Chaffee and I believe LVT3 did not have a reverse gear, this was done in the 2f + 2r transfer box. This engine was also used in infantry landing craft but presumably marineised to some degree. One of the nice things with these engines is that the exhaust manifold was black vitreous enameled and bolted on with stainless bolts - Cadillac had their standards to uphold !

Some great info on the hydrmatic gearbox over on this Detroit Transmission (Hydra-Matic) Division of General Motors Corporation in World War Two / WWII webpage

[David Dunlop]

Just trying to wrap my head around Penguin production.

Various sources indicate Canada only ever retained 11 original Armoured Snowmobiles. Of these, the majority seem to have been converted to Penguins by Operation Muskox. Films show at least one surviving original vehicle in that original exercise.

Of the known surviving Penguins in Canada, I cannot recall one that does not show original lower front armour. Logic would state there should only be 11 such survivors. If there are more than that, where did the hulls come from that were used for conversion to Penguins?

If Penguins were built from scratch, did they simply adapt original plans, incorporating new built, modified lower hulls?

Would any of the known surviving Penguins show signs of armour plate having been cut down/modified? If so, in theory, these should be part of the original 11 inventory, should they not?

One other thought. If Penguins were built on new designed lower hulls, would they have bothered utilizing armour plate?

David

[Jason Ginn]

This pic was posted on the FB CF-100 group today but it I had to bring it over here because of all the cool vehicles in the shot. Notice in the back is a Penguin and a Bombardier in white!

[rob love]

Quite the cross section of stuff. I see L19 Cessna no702, a M101 4/3 ton trailer, and some commercial panel trucks that appear to be of slightly earlier vintage than those two.

The history on 702 shows one entry that may date the photo:

To Central Experimental and Proving Establishment at RCAF Station Namao, Alberta from 24 July 1957, for cold weather trials.

That would fit in with the timeline on the M101 trailers. The cargo truck in the background looks like a M135.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The CWM has a Penguin Mk III in their collection. It seems it is missing its tracks:


https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections/artifact/1317602/

[Ed Storey]

It could either be a Penguin Mk 2 or a Mk 3 as externally both vehicles look the same.