Dodge D-15 and D-60 info

[Eric Delcommenne]

Matt,

Here is a picture of my D-60-L of 1944 with its original rear body.
This vehicle is for sale.

Eric Delcommenne
Brussels, Belgium

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Erwin
3. Presuming wooden bodies have been used: could it only have been a 2H1 for a D-15?Or any other? I´m pretty weak on British cargo bodies...

Erwin, are you still looking for a body for your D15? There is (was?) a 2H1 body for sale right under our noses! But there's a C15 included in the deal, though...

H.

[Erwin]

Hanno,
many thanks! Just contacted Nick. Great news, let´s see...
Keep you updated!
Greetings, Erwin

[Keith Webb]

Taken at Mt. Gravatt, Queensland. Note the local roof hatch. This truck was most likely from S/M 2458 contract, which was for model T 110-L-5

Source

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

SM 2458 3-TON LORRY 4 X 2 160” W.B. with Split Cab Roof, Eaton 2-speed rear axle and dual rear wheels
“Shipped Direct Overseas” i.e. for Mid-East and then Australian forces1942 T-110-L-4 Serials # 91018501-91021500

SM 2458 3-TON LORRY 4 X 2 with Split Cab Roof, 2-speed axle and 10.50 x 16 wheels [single at rear] “Shipped Direct Overseas” i.e. for Mid-East and then Australian forces E.g. Serial # 91024993
# 91025019 Engine # T110-L-5 4494 4/9/41 and # 91024253
D-60420-C- 1942 D60-L T-110-L-5 Serials # 91021501-91025100

[Erwin]

Keith and David,
do you have pictures about an Australian D15, too?
Would be nice to retore one in Austria, and i´m yet looking for an attrective paint scheme.
And:
Can anybody tell me where to get 5 pieces 900-16 banana tires in a reasonable state (in Europe only)?

Hanno: I think the 2H1 body has been sold 1 year ago. No reply...
Has anybody one left?Could pick up at Winter Rally in Bastogne, belgium.
Greetings fm Vienna,
Erwin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Matt
Yes the D15 I was hoping to buy was in the South of France.if it is going to be broken up I have a list of wants and if it is the same truck I know it had at least some of the parts I'm looking for on it so I'd be most greatful if you could pass my details to the owner.

The D15 I referred to has been posted for sale on Milweb:

For sale: Dodge D15 type T222 1943-1944
Needs to be restored. No registration. Price 2150 euro. Photo's will be send by e-mail on request.
+31 228 541512
Jakob Oud 27 September '04

HTH,
Hanno

[Erwin]

My D-15 has the following data-plate:
1stplate:
Dodge D 1542?C
Cab Mod 21
No. 910 48 555
T222 20 75 60
Date of manufacture: 2.10.43
2nd plate
Maintenance Manual: C 428D2
Spare Parts: 3833

Paint beneath the civil postwar green is first yellow, then olive green.
Is there any chance to trace the mission areas of the vehicle?
And: the cab roof shows a welding to close a previously open hatch.
Which version had this hatch?
And: in this thread some b/w pictures of camouflage-patterned D15s have been posted, obiously sand/black. (e.g. the Military Police D15 in the British Pathe movie)
My last question: What colors are these exactly?
Thank you,
Erwin

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

No. 910 48 555 Engine # T222 20 75 60 is a T-222 15 cwt from the serial # batch # 91,047,001 to 91,053,000.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Erwin
Is there any chance to trace the mission areas of the vehicle?

Wasn't Austria liberated by British troops fighting their way up through Italy? I would not be surprised if your Dodge served there.

And: the cab roof shows a welding to close a previously open hatch.
Which version had this hatch?

I have seen pictures of American half-ton Dodges in British service in North Africa which had retrofitted hatches. Was the hole in your roof round or square?

And: in this thread some b/w pictures of camouflage-patterned D15s have been posted, obiously sand/black. (e.g. the Military Police D15 in the British Pathe movie)
My last question: What colors are these exactly?

That would be the design introduced in April 1943 for use in Sicily and Italy, with a base tone of SCC5 "Light Mud" with Black or SCC7 (a dark olive green) in bold patterns for camouflage. See paint schemes for CMP trucks and follow the links to Mike Starmer's articles on this subject for exact colour mixes. Mike published a series of small books on the subject with all the relevant info and camouflage patterns. If you want to do an exact paint job, make sure to read Mike's research.

HTH,
Hanno

[Erwin]

Thank you, David!
That serial number would appear on the bonnet, is that right?
Knowing the batch of serial numbers can it be told what service branch (RAF, Army etc.) the vehicle
went to?

And can you tell me perhaps what the "VAN" in the first line in data plate1 means?
Was that another body type than GS?
Thanks in advance for enlightening me,
Erwin

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The Serial Number is the 'chassis number' but thanks to the British contract number on the build plate we know the War Department [British Army] Census Number run:

Z 5335321 to 5339617 SM 2674 'TRUCK 15 CWT 4 X 2 G/S' 128½ “ W.B.

The Census Number would be on the hood and be in that sequence.

The C 15428 VAN indicates Canadian 15-cwt, 4 wheels, 2-wheel drive and that it originally had a 'Van' body but others can elaborate more than I can! Also note the 'Cab 21' which I have not come accross before..in the 'first style' Series 11/21/41.

[Erwin]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Wasn't Austria liberated by British troops fighting their way up through Italy? I would not be surprised if your Dodge served there.

Yes, that´s true.Southern Austria. I need to do some more research, but couldn´t find any pictures of D15s on Austrian ground.

I have seen pictures of American half-ton Dodges in British service in North Africa which had retrofitted hatches. Was the hole in your roof round or square?

Rectangular, square.

... If you want to do an exact paint job, make sure to read Mike's research.

I will! Can you buy the basic British WWII colors readymixed somewhere on the continent (Belgium, Holland). Or in UK?
Many thanks for answering so fast!
Erwin

[Erwin]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
The Serial Number is the 'chassis number'...etc.

-Great! Can I trace the vehicle via census number into the service branch or at least mission theater?

that it originally had a 'Van' body but others can elaborate more than I can! Also note the 'Cab 21' which I have not come accross before...

-Sounds thrilling.Maybe somebody knows something;-)

Thank you, please keep on answering,
Erwin

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

2. Cab Code

11...MILITARY PATTERN CAB-Original Design
12...MILITARY PATTERN CAB-Alligator Hood
13...MILITARY PATTERN CAB-Reverse Slope Windscreen
21...CONVENTIONAL OR MODIFIED CONVENTIONAL CAB
31...CAB-OVER-ENGINE TYPE CAB
41...HALF OR OPEN TYPE CAB

There were of course Canadian Dodge COE military trucks although I cannot recollect seeing any Canadian Chevrolet or GMC COE MCP trucks.

What the listing above does not mention of course is the 42/43 and 43S open cabs. I have never seen a 41 Cab either! The earliest open CMP cab that I know of is the 42 on the Chevrolet 2-pounder Portees.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Erwin
Can you buy the basic British WWII colors readymixed somewhere on the continent (Belgium, Holland).

Mix up the colours you need according to Mike Starmer's recipe, and put some of it on white carton. Go to any automotive paint store and have them computer-match-and-mix it.

And can you tell me perhaps what the "VAN" in the first line in data plate1 means?
Was that another body type than GS?

A Van is a GS type body with top bows and canvas cover (originally a GS body only had a flat tarp over it).

HTH,
Hanno

[Erwin]

You guys seem to know it all!!
Many thanks!!
;-)))))

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Erwin
Rectangular, square.

In that case it could have been fitted with one of the hatches as shown on the Dodge T-110-L-4 3-ton 4x2 Stores truck shown below. I found the picture in Bellona's Military Vehicle Data Number Four, and it is credited to the R.E.M.E. Museum. It seems to have been pictured in either the North African or Italian theatre.
Like I said, I have seen pictures of American half-ton Dodges in British service in North Africa which had these hatches retrofitted. The booklet mentioned also shows the same type of hatch on a Karrier K6 3-ton 4x4 GS truck in a desert paint scheme. I'm not sure this is what your truck had. It looks like a North African campaign modification, and with your truck being built in October 1943 it could not have been used in the North African campaign, could it?

H.

[Erwin]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
It looks like a North African campaign modification, and with your truck being built in October 1943 it could not have been used in the North African campaign, could it?

Well, that seems logical. But how can we explain the yellow color found all over the vehicle as basic color?
First color is yellow (Light Stone?), second something like OD, then a civil green (exterior), grey (interior).

That would mean the British trucks were painted yellow even when delivered after the North African campaign, and then changed to green in an in-theater workshop (like in the story in one of the recent Classic Military Vehicle magazines).

My D15 has been changed to LHD after the war, and the chassis was made longer for better commercial use. This is to be reset to original standard. But even on the frame you can see the yellow color.
Erwin

[Nigel Dawe]

Not much help really, guys, but in the late 1970's a scrap yard in Carterton, Oxfordshire, England, had what was I'm sure a D-15 chassis cab with a small recovery crane fitted. It was in excellent condition then, and I saw it often as I delivered there on occasion.
The yard is now a housing estate as the owner sold it all up a number of years ago, but he still lives locally, although in his 80's, but I will see if I can track him down and ask what happened to it. Somewhere (!!!) I have a couple of photo slides of it and I'll try and find them and if possible post them on the forum. I do remember that it was fitted with some lovely non directional military pattern tyres, but can't remember the make now !! Pete Ashby will laugh at this, he knows I have a military rubber fetish !

Nigel Dawe, ex. Oxford CMP'ers (but still adore them).

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

The lower British Pathe picture of the back of the D-15 shows a nice 2C1 or 2H1 cargo box (exactly like the one used on Chev and Ford 15 cwts) complete with CMP type POL carriers and tail lamps. Interesting also is the "FPU" on the rear left that would indicate a 'Film and Photo Unit'.

[Erwin]

Sorry for dumb question: What are POL carriers?
Erwin

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Erwin
Sorry for dumb question: What are POL carriers?
Erwin

Petrol, Oil, Lubricants - these are the small, refillable 2 gallon cans not to be confused with flimsies. Often there was a water can too, making it POW carriers.

See the 2 gallon can thread.

[Al Nickolson]

This vehicle was fond near Edmonton,Alberta.

I talked to the owner of this truck. He told me that it was British contract truck.

Al Nickolson

[Tony Smith]

One of the Dodges at Kingaroy (and Erwin's, too) had the dash below. Comparing it with the '45 dash above, I note some differences.
Did Dodges have Early-Commercial/ Late-Military instrument changes like the Ford and Chev CMP's? When did this changeover take place, around the same time as CMP's?

[cliff]

Tony I have been interested in this type of Dodge and the earlier ones ('38-'39) for years (about 30 in fact) both in New Zealand and here in Australia.

All the ones that I have seen have had the same instrument panel and Dash as the Kingaroy trucks.

So the other one pictured is a new one on me as I have never seen this type before. I too would be interested in further information if it becomes availiable.

Cliff

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Erwin
Well, that seems logical. But how can we explain the yellow color found all over the vehicle as basic color?
First color is yellow (Light Stone?), second something like OD, then a civil green (exterior), grey (interior).

That would mean the British trucks were painted yellow even when delivered after the North African campaign, and then changed to green in an in-theater workshop (like in the story in one of the recent Classic Military Vehicle magazines).

Erwin,

The paint applied by the manufacturer was considered the basic colour on top of which the Army would apply the camouflage disruptive colour. Originally, all vehicles going to the European Theatre of Operations ar were painted Khaki Green G3 (BS381c No.23 Middle Bronze Green) and those going to the Middle East No.61 Light Stone (both British Standard formulas). Later Khaki Green G3 was changed Standard Camouflage Colour (SCC) 2 (yes, that famous rich brown colour) and eventually to SCC15 Olive Drab (ref. paint schemes for CMP trucks).
Now, Light Stone 61 was the basic tone in Middle East 1938-42, so any vehicle slated for delivery to the Middle East got a base coat of Light Stone at the factory. By the time it was shipped and received at the other end of the Atlantic, the final destination might well have changed, or the camouflage schemes used could have changed - read more about these changes in Mike Starmer's articles and books.

My Ford F15A was built in January 1943 and was also painted Light Stone at the factory, by which point in time it was no longer a basic colour. So why was it painted that colour? Revised paint schemes had not yet reached Canadian factories or they simply used the paint stocks available?
My F15A could very well have never left the UK, where it was painted various colours of green (most likely Khaki Green and SCC 15). Now what colour should I repaint my truck in? Depends what I want to depict. Factory fresh? Light Stone. In service in NW Europe? SCC2 with SCC14 (black) "Mickey Mouse" camouflage pattern, for example.

Main thing is to pick a theatre and make sure your truck could have been there. My truck could have never been used in North Africa, but could have been in Sicily, Italy and NW Europe. Same is true for your truck, although it could have been used in the Middle East. This would tie in with the indications of it having had a roof hatch fitted.

Hanno

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

That's another unknown [to me] British contract! The truck is a D60S/DD, with the Eaton 2-speed rear axle, Model T-110-L-13, and from the sequential batch # 91,162,456 to 91,166,033, with the other 91,175,004 to 91,177,103 both '1941-45' produced.

I assume that the truck, as with a known 1945 Model Chevrolet that may still be in a scrapyard in Canada, that it was a late war build that was shipped to England, and then claimed by the Canadian commission at war's send and then shipped back to Canada. However, on reflection this sounds rather suspect as it was not a Canadian contract but British..it could have therefore been a post-war demob and sale after refurb by the Chrysler plant in Kew.

[Erwin]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
My F15A ...

Very nice truck, your truck, Hanno!
The roof hatch, would that be the same size than my D15 hatch below? If so, do you have a copy/drawing of the exact making?And would you share it;-)))please?

Many thanks for your explanations on the color!
Erwin

[Erwin]

Hi Hanno, David, Matt (and everybody else supporting me so far!!)

By the way, this is my D15 when moving to his new (my) home.
I discovered it incidentally in a barn two villages away from mine, engine turning (no ignition though), electricity partly working, and wheels turning.
Vehicle was stored absolutely dry, with radiator water drained to prevent frost damage.
Restoration is due not before one year until 1) all facts are in and b) other vehicle restorations are completed.
I would like to finish it as RAF vehicle if possible (referring to Hannos feasibility pleas), let´s see. And of course in Light stone, since this is the original color.
Thanks to all of you sharing your knowledge.Please keep on.
Erwin