Cdn 3-colour paint schemes

[rob love]

Chemical Agent Resistant Coating was the answer to the acronym in my circles. The secret killer agent in them is just plain old isocyanates, found in most automotive paints back in the day. We had to take a lot of precautions when spraying it, and just as many when stripping it. A lot of those precautions have been relieved now that they have the same paint in a water based formula.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi

Scot, thanks for the offer but Dave has hooked me up with the requisite pdf pages.

Jon and Rob, all good data and I thank you as well. Funny how we never had any warnings about how bad CARC is during the Regt'l Paint Parties back in the 80's!! Nowadays, you say CARC on Base and the civvies demand a raise and the Mat Techs just start running!!!!

In the "assemble the plan" phase now as we won't launch on actual painting until all the snow snakes go into summer hibernation. No sense risking the "help"!!

kind regards
Darrell

[rob love]

Generally we did not use CARC in the 80s. It did not come into the Cdn system until the very late 80s/ almost the 90s. Even then, the deliveries were held back as the awareness to the health hazards came out. The Iltis may have been painted with a form of CARC when it was introduced, but any paint we put on was just the normal IRR stuff. Basically, if you were adding a hardener to the paint, then you were likely dealing with CARC.

I was discussing the CARC hazards with a pre-med tech recently, and according to her, the isocyanates were only released in the presence of flame, so there was not a great risk in sanding or chipping the old paint. This differred from the warnings we were given in the mid 90s, so somewhere in the middle, perhaps the truth lies. Personally I stay away from the stuff. Life is too short to experiment. But then again I guess I am one of those civvys.

You could not brush the CARC on as it would be too thick and crack. It was only sprayed, and on the plus side it was a tough as nails.

[chris vickery]

Rob, in the circles I travel, industrial painting usng the same type of coating had inherrent risk while spraying as well.
Isocyanates are easily inhaled as well as absorbed through the unprotected skin and mucous membranes.
Guys who used to piant with this stuff had to take regular blood testing to monitor exposure levels.

[rob love]

Yes Chris, you are obviously right. However I did not include that possibility since apparently the new CARC is not as bad as the old CARC, and stocks of the old CARC should be long gone. At this time, in the military, the primary hazard would seem to be in the way the paint is removed from the equipment painted with the old stuff. Burning the paint off would be not recommended. This especially comes into play if one was cutting a vehicle coated in CARC. I recently had to cut some welds on a static vehicle. Fortunately it was outdoors and there was a nice breeze to my back so I did not have to take any precautions beyond the norm.

When I was working in Afghanistan, there was a section of guys with the company I was with who only did mods to the vehicles. They had been given no special instructions about the CARC paint which I was a little surprised about. They were constantly grinding and cutting into the hulls. As contractors, there would be no follow up as to the health effects.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi

Obviously, as just a "user" of armoured vehicles, I was/am somewhat ignorant of the paint we used. I am thinking early/middle 80's and seem to recall (which occasionally happens to me) it was in fact Infra-Red Reflective paint and not CARC.

Rob, when you say "normal IRR", what does that mean? What type of paint was it and can I still get it through the system?

Barring that, is the Gillespie paint suitable to replicate IRR, d'ya think?

regards
Darrell

[rob love]

Prior to the IRR paint, we used an Alkyd Enamel I believe. The NSNs were in the 8010-21-5XX-XXXX range. Around 1979 or so, the new paint, with an NSN of around 8010-21-880-9628,29,30 and 50 replaced the older paint. This was the IRR, again an enamel. I have an old EME journal that discusses the development of the paint with it's designer. Apparently, it mimics the reflectiveness of leaves to give it it's IR reflective qualities.

Around 1990, there were intiially NSNs issued for the CARC, which was soon replaced with US CARC I believe. If you google, you will find that the US CARC has now developed into a water based paint. The CARCs included a hardener which seemed to be the main health hazard. It was also as tough as nails. Applied properly, even paint stripper had difficulty removing it.

I guess when I say "normal" IRR, I am merely referring to the paint which was the most common to my service career. These days I guess you would refer to CARC as the normal army paint.

The older numbers are now obsolete. All military equipment is to be painted with CARC.

The Gillespir paint is suitable to replace the IRR or even the older enamel paints. Some of the colours are not a perfect match, but with a little bit of sunlight and dust, they fullfill the role. I normally pick mine up at the MVPA conventions when I go down, but I have also ordered pallets of it from RAPCO in texas which I would have delivered to just on the other side of the US?CAN border. By the time I got it across the border, it added up to around $47 a gallon, although with the depressed dollar right now I suspect the price will be higher.

I will talk to the Rapco guy this year to see if it's possible he could get Gillespie to mix up the Cdn colours, although I am unsure that the sales to Canada would warrant it.