Cdn 3-colour paint schemes

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi

Obviously, as just a "user" of armoured vehicles, I was/am somewhat ignorant of the paint we used. I am thinking early/middle 80's and seem to recall (which occasionally happens to me) it was in fact Infra-Red Reflective paint and not CARC.

Rob, when you say "normal IRR", what does that mean? What type of paint was it and can I still get it through the system?

Barring that, is the Gillespie paint suitable to replicate IRR, d'ya think?

regards
Darrell

[rob love]

Prior to the IRR paint, we used an Alkyd Enamel I believe. The NSNs were in the 8010-21-5XX-XXXX range. Around 1979 or so, the new paint, with an NSN of around 8010-21-880-9628,29,30 and 50 replaced the older paint. This was the IRR, again an enamel. I have an old EME journal that discusses the development of the paint with it's designer. Apparently, it mimics the reflectiveness of leaves to give it it's IR reflective qualities.

Around 1990, there were intiially NSNs issued for the CARC, which was soon replaced with US CARC I believe. If you google, you will find that the US CARC has now developed into a water based paint. The CARCs included a hardener which seemed to be the main health hazard. It was also as tough as nails. Applied properly, even paint stripper had difficulty removing it.

I guess when I say "normal" IRR, I am merely referring to the paint which was the most common to my service career. These days I guess you would refer to CARC as the normal army paint.

The older numbers are now obsolete. All military equipment is to be painted with CARC.

The Gillespir paint is suitable to replace the IRR or even the older enamel paints. Some of the colours are not a perfect match, but with a little bit of sunlight and dust, they fullfill the role. I normally pick mine up at the MVPA conventions when I go down, but I have also ordered pallets of it from RAPCO in texas which I would have delivered to just on the other side of the US?CAN border. By the time I got it across the border, it added up to around $47 a gallon, although with the depressed dollar right now I suspect the price will be higher.

I will talk to the Rapco guy this year to see if it's possible he could get Gillespie to mix up the Cdn colours, although I am unsure that the sales to Canada would warrant it.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi Rob

You're a wealth of great info. Thank you.

You're like me and remember the IRR (well, I do now) as normal then. CARC, even water based, isn't my first choice.

I'm going to try my Sales Reps at work and see what they can do with a more workable paint for outdoor use. Maybe one of them is tied into Gillespie. I could be buying pallets!

kind regards
Darrell

[rob love]

If this if for a NPF type project, I would suggest just buying the paint from Rapco, and having it shipped to somewhere in Houlton Maine, which by map does not seem that far away. Rapco will send it by UPS, and if you buy 1 gallon or 20 gallons, the hazmat charge is just the same.

I have always just paid for purchases like this on my CC, then submitted the bill for reimbursement through NPF. I give them the bill along with the snippet from my online Credit card statement, as well as the Canada Customs bill (if they even charge the taxes....often if it's for the museum they will only charge the GST), and NPF always pays back to the penny.

There are hardeners you can add to the Gillespie paint to make it tougher if the vehicles you are painting are to be left outside. But in general, I just spray it on thick and it is reasonable durable once it hardens in a week or two. I use Xylene for the reducer. The stuff dries in 15 minutes, just like the old army paints.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi Rob

Not really an NPF thing but more a Base Task using DHH grant monies. I have to adhere to the Financial Administration Act protocols since it's still Crown money.

Fortunately I have Vendor Reps here in my Army Job I deal with and buy under the FAA with them a lot, so I'm very familiar with it all.

The issue is finding a supplier. Gillespie is a no go since I cannot expect to be able to cross the border with 1000 Gallons of paint that may not meet our Customs requirements.

Therefore I met with the regional rep for Rust-oleum Canada today and they are pretty sure they can provide my needs. I gave them a list of FS colours I'll need for x15 vehicles and they will let me know in very short order if they can produce the colours I need in their product.

If this gels up and I get what I need, I'll provide their numbers to the Forum as an FYI.

For now, based on past experiences in Pet, Glidden Paints has the following paint codes that correspond to FS codes:

FS34077 (Olive Green)=7733 Dark Hunter Green
FS36515 (Grey)=7786 Smokey Grey)
FS30108 (Brown)=7775 (Leather Brown) or 214085 (Flat Brown)
FS33446 (Stone)=7771 (sand) or 7755 (Light Olive)

regards
Darrell