Use of fuel stabilizers in HMVs

[Stuart Fedak]

Text removed as information is no longer current

[chris vickery]

Stuart
Fuel stabilizers are a stop gap measure; todays fuels contain up to 10% ethanol which is not good for old engines and engine components, especially rubber parts.
In recent conversations with my local small engine shop, they actually reccommend the use of high octane fuels only. I believe Shell is one of the only companies that offers non ethanol fuel in their high grade. There is also a website which shows a province by province list of stations offering non ethanol fuels.
Alternatively, many guys in the US are using aviation gas in their engines, especially for off road vehicles such as bikes, Mules, jeeps etc.

[chris vickery]

Stuart
Ypu are correct that the list does change.
As a rule of thumb, I use hi test fuel in all of my antique and lawn and garden equipment.
I do add fuel stabilizer anyways over the winter just in case.
I also try to make sure that I do not store fuel for more than 6 months at a time. If its been around, throw it in the truck and get some more fresh stuff.
The main issue with ethanol is WATER, alcohol attracts water. The condensation in your half full fuel tank is absorbed into the gasoline by the ethanol. Once the water concentrate titrates out of the gasoline it settles into the bottom of your fuel tank, your carb etc. Now you have water in your fuel system which leads to all sorts of problems...
I found out recently with a snowblower that was giving my friend some issues. The reason it would not start was water in the fuel. Once the fuel was drained and flushed out and some new fuel and a new plug added it started up immediately.

[david moore]

Presumably, stabiliser helps stop the gas going bad - but does nothing to stop the perils of ethanol/water?
Will switching to hi-test for my MB jeep hasten valve problems? Maybe only ca. 200 miles per year makes that not an issue?

David

[chris vickery]

David

Your valve problems have more to do with the fact that you are running unleaded fuel in an engine designed for leaded fuel.
Optionally, the use of hardened valve seats allow for the use of modern unleaded fuel.
You can purchase a lead aditive for old engines to help with the old style valve seats. Some guys run AV Gas which is actually leaded but not technically legal to run in on road vehicles...
For a couple hundred miles per year I would not worry about it.

[Perry Kitson]

I think the use of high octane fuel will eliminate the ethanol problem. Most fuel companies post the ethanol content on the pumps. Regular fuel (87 octane) usually contains 10% ethanol, mid grade (89 octane) around 5% ethanol and the premium (91 octane) is usually ethanol free. I have been told ethanol actually lowers the octane rating of fuel it's added to, increasing fuel consumption.

Perry

[chris vickery]

The only issues I can see using 20l fuel cans as an auxillary tank are:
1) it is not the engineered system designed fir said vehicle so technically not legal or MTO/ Transport Canada approved
2) leaving a fuel system completely drained creates it own problems due to condensation forming in steel fuel lines as well as the drying out of fuel pump diaphrams and rubber components

[Jon Skagfeld]

Chris: Reference our recent telecon...

That web-site cites CTC 91 octane as being ethanol free.

Well, I went to our local CTC gas pumps and the pump just showed the decal "May contain up to 10% ethanol". It didn't discriminate between octanes; the decal covered all three.

I went into the kiosk and asked "Does your 91 octane have ethanol?'

Answer: As of 01 March 2015, yes.

So it looks like Shell V Power might be the only choice left, as if that's a choice!

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Sorry to hear that ethanol fuel has now become widespread in Canada, he have been suffering with the stuff in the US for years.

My observations on fuel stabilizers:

• They sort of work, the US gas goes flat very fast with or without stabilizer additive.
• Stabilizer does seem to help with the water absorption and separation
• Power loss and fuel economy from gas going flat is very marked, I've done engine test stand test with stale (3 months old) and fresh gas engine running on fresh gas all warmed up and running on fresh gas, switch tanks to stale gas as the fuel in the system is used up and the stale gas hits the carb, RPMs drop and the engine takes on a unhealthy note.
• When running 3 month old gas in the generator there is marked drop in max power out put of the generator and how much load it will carry, but what is even more marked is the drop in fuel economy which drops by 30%. Burn through the stuff in the tank and refill with fresh gas and generator carries more load and fuel economy is back. Power loss with the generator is significant enough that now I have 3 sealed five gallon cans which I keep full. But once a month in the winter I dump the all in our regular cars and refill with fresh.

For year prior to the change in fuel each fall I would fill all the tanks on the trucks before parking them for the winter. Then if we had extended power outage I had 84 gallons of fuel on hand. No power outage would just use up the fuel in the trucks in the spring. Came the fuel change and the trucks run like crap in the spring. As a rule of thumb now if any of the antiques start running crappy I drain the fuel (use in regular car) and refill the tank with fresh fuel before even thinking about looking for a cause of the running crappy.


Yes, I use Stabil Marine in the trucks and in the fuel cans.



Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

First of all we are sold on removeable 5 gal. outboard motor tanks for safety. As we are still finishing work on the trucks and need to do some welding the tank can come off so easily. Also if closed tight and being plastic we do not seem to be having stale gas problems or separation within the gas tank as reported on US Chev forums.

I do keep extra Hi test gas in similar 5 gal. Specter containers with no makor problems.... container are full to the top and sealed tight. I do rotate the fuel in the lawn mower tractor and for paint gun cleaning but a lot of my gas is over 3 months old at time.

Hi test is more expensive short term but does run better in the truck and in the chain saw, mower, slurry pump, pressure washer, etc.

In fact I do not even bother with fuel additive except for the full tank of the electric generator to insure quick start in an emergency .

Cheers

[David Dunlop]

Back in the 70's, I got a tank full of water contaminated gasoline in my Challenger 383 Magnum one day and it started running like crap. One of the mechanics on duty grabbed a quart bottle of methyl hydrate and poured it into my tank. Said it would absorb the water and help get it through the system. The car continued to run rough for about half a block and settled down OK for the entire tank load of gas. When I went back later and told him, he said the MH was the same stuff they used to use in a local bus garage to filter the bus air brake/line systems through to remove water. They had a set time for changing out the MH reservoirs in the buses. Maybe that would help with the water in gasoline today, though I am not sure about solving how quickly gasoline goes stale these days.

David

[Bob Carriere]

Way back when we bought it by the gallons at local FLAP dealers for Winter months. Apparently if use in sufficient quantity it does mix with condensation water in the tank and allows is to burn. I tried to use rubbing alcohol form a drug store in a an alcohol lamp with a chemistry set and would not burned.... the bottle said 60 % alcohol..... I added methyl from the gallon bottle in the garage and it worked fine.

We also had to change spark plugs every Spring or at least clean and regapped the plugs until replacement 6 months later before Winter set in again.

I was told...... that ethyl has a greater affinity with water than methyl and can actually absorbe it from the air similar to standard brake fluid. Can't vouched for that,

Bob C

ps...ETHYL is meant for human consumption... why waste it in your car????

[chris vickery]

For those experimentalists out there, apparently there is a way to "wash" ethanol out of your fuel.
It sounds crazy but supposedly it works.
You add straight water to your gasoline and allow the mixture to settle.
The water will attract the ethanol and then settle. You pump off the straight gasonline and for added safety filter through a moisture trapping filter.
Sounds like a lot of work to me, hi test is easier, at least for now.
As an aside, we the consumer are being ripped off by the gas companies with the addition of ethanol to our fuel. It burns more quickly than gasoline and has less power yhan gasoline. Its like buying a hamburger full of filler. Do you want filler or do you want meat?
We certainly don't pay less for ethanol blended fuels.
I did an experiment recently and calculated that Premium is actually similar in price to run as regular. If you figure out your average cost per KM for regular and then do the same for Super you will see what I mean.
The main difference I found was that Premium was higher in price but achieved way more km per tank than regular. Also, the engine is more responsive with plenty of power.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I doubt a POL jerry hanging on the brush guard will pass the vehicle safety inspection, but for yard work THAT is a good idea.

[Terry McMillan]

We use Marvel mystery oil as a lead substitute in our HMV just mix it in with your fuel ! Walmart now sells it in Canada !

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

Terry, it would even work for an M151A2 that has a hole in the gas tank, that needed to be moved on the driveway.......

Cheers!
Stuart

Cheeky bugger!

In view of the unknowns in the bowels of the M38A1 tank, I may follow your lead as I work to get 70-08876 coughing and belching.