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  #1  
Old 31-03-15, 18:03
chris vickery's Avatar
chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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Speaking of never seeing the light of day again...
The CWM literally has vaults full of memorabilia that will always be there, locked away sitting in the dark.
The only time items will be removed from storage is when the decision is made to put on a theme inspired exhibit and they go scrounging through storage for a few select pieces.
Furthermore, there is little need for museums to have more than one example of specific pieces. I can just imagine drawers fulls of duplicate medals.
Once in the museums hands, these items rarely make it back into the collectors realm.
Rules and regulations prohibit the exchange, sale or trade of donated materials outside of museums. It is a shame.
I have had the personal opportunity to view many personal collections that make most museums look paltry by comparison. I believe collectors take great care and pride in their collections and give them a better home. Afterall, personal collectors spend their own time and money to make these investments and caring for them is in their own best interests. The same cannot be said for collections owned and managed by paid employees where it is merely a job, funding can be cut or museums closed.
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  #2  
Old 31-03-15, 19:17
rob love rob love is offline
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Chris
As collectors, the appeal to us is quality, along with rarity, and in some cases quantity. To the average member of the public, which is 99% of the viewers of most museums, the artifacts must tell, or be part of, a story.

The average person is not interested in the rarity of a beat up LongBranch 1941 no4mk1 over seeing a pristine FTRd British made rifle being displayed. Nor would most care to even know the difference. So the massive walls of webbing that might well entertain us will be lost on the normal tours of people to the museums. So yes, 95% or more of the artifacts will be in storage, but from my experience, they will be well stored and there when the time does come that a suitable theme presents itself to draw them out.

Yes, it would be great to have coliseum sized museums, but the public appetite for the cost just isn't there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris vickery View Post
Speaking of never seeing the light of day again...
The CWM literally has vaults full of memorabilia that will always be there, locked away sitting in the dark.
The only time items will be removed from storage is when the decision is made to put on a theme inspired exhibit and they go scrounging through storage for a few select pieces.
Furthermore, there is little need for museums to have more than one example of specific pieces. I can just imagine drawers fulls of duplicate medals.
Once in the museums hands, these items rarely make it back into the collectors realm.
Rules and regulations prohibit the exchange, sale or trade of donated materials outside of museums. It is a shame.
I have had the personal opportunity to view many personal collections that make most museums look paltry by comparison. I believe collectors take great care and pride in their collections and give them a better home. Afterall, personal collectors spend their own time and money to make these investments and caring for them is in their own best interests. The same cannot be said for collections owned and managed by paid employees where it is merely a job, funding can be cut or museums closed.
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  #3  
Old 31-03-15, 19:51
chris vickery's Avatar
chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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Rob, agreed.
The is also something to be said for the service provided by ordinary members of the public who we refer to as collectors.
What I mean by this is the level of commitment undertaken by individuals to research, collect, find and finance artifacts which would, could or will be ravaged or lost to time.
Collectively, there are way more individuals collectors who have the time and passion to pursue these things, while most museums have limited budgets, time and research staff.
I support museums but also the individuals. One does not survive without the other.
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1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC
1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC
1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR
1943 Converto Airborne Trailer
1983 M1009 CUCV
1957 Triumph TRW 500cc

RT-524, PRC-77s,
and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and.......

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  #4  
Old 31-03-15, 22:57
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Robert Bergeron Robert Bergeron is online now
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I knew i could trust the members of this forum to debate with respect of each other's opinions.

I certainly agree with Chris, Rob and Ed in most and every aspect. Private collectors are the reason why the better '' stuff '' is preserved .

As for ''Mister '' , the treason of trust is what ''kills '' me . In the Middle Ages , a Knight ( today's equivalent of an officer ) who would breach his oath like ''Mister '' did would have his sword broken , his family crest disposed of in fire and his head cut off with an axe. His body would then be left to rot for crows to feast . No burial in a cathedral or consecrated grounds.

I think what the Chain of Command did with his commission and medals is the modern equivalent. As for the the pension, the anomaly here is that it cannot be forfeited or seized in favour of his victim's families.

I am way out of the subject but i have recurring nightmares of MCpl Comeau recognising her assailiant , torturer and eventual killer. He was her Wing' s CO for God's sake !

Thanks for your comments.



Robert
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  #5  
Old 01-04-15, 02:57
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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I can think of a handful of service members who have been released in disgrace and had their CDs recovered - the senior officer and the junior officer mentioned, and an intelligence analyst. Just recently a female Air Nav' got court martialed for wearing unearned awards, which cost her the OMM and other punishments. But what about the other hundreds of service men and women who get into trouble with the law every year? Don't convicted drunk drivers, shoplifters, and assailants also bring disrepute upon the Forces? Shouldn't they have their long service good conduct medals pulled too?

Bob mentioned above that what the Queen gives, she can take away. By that definition, wouldn't medals be an in-their-lifetime temporary loan, with the return spring taking effect upon death?
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  #6  
Old 01-04-15, 11:13
Dianaa Dianaa is offline
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Just to touch on the issue of revoking military medals, the only medal that can't be revoked is the Victoria Cross. While a VC recipient from the second Afghan War (and WWI) Pte. James Collis, was awarded the VC, he later had it forfeited because of bigamy. After a petition to King George V the award was restored after James Collis VC died.

The King proclaimed at the time "No matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC recipient to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his medal on the scaffold.”
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  #7  
Old 01-04-15, 14:30
rob love rob love is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh View Post
I can think of a handful of service members who have been released in disgrace and had their CDs recovered - the senior officer and the junior officer mentioned, and an intelligence analyst. Just recently a female Air Nav' got court martialed for wearing unearned awards, which cost her the OMM and other punishments. But what about the other hundreds of service men and women who get into trouble with the law every year? Don't convicted drunk drivers, shoplifters, and assailants also bring disrepute upon the Forces? Shouldn't they have their long service good conduct medals pulled too?

Bob mentioned above that what the Queen gives, she can take away. By that definition, wouldn't medals be an in-their-lifetime temporary loan, with the return spring taking effect upon death?
Here is the link to the official answers that you seek. http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-pol...-01/ch-18.page

Section 4 covers forfeitures. As always when reading regulations (and drill manuals), note the difference between shall and may.

Nothing there about the return of any of them upon death.

Last edited by rob love; 01-04-15 at 14:36.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-15, 19:08
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Bill Alexander Bill Alexander is offline
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Bringing this back to the collection in question, I have downloaded the catalogue. Some lots are questionable, and I would be very careful if considering bidding. The 1 Cdn Par lot 244 is one I would cite as questionable. Note the auctioneer says the insignia is not guaranteed. Many other lots need to be carefully studied.
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