Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

If that is the same paint that you supplied me a sample of and we decanted into 4 litre tins that is in the Florite data base and they can make it .

That paint was coultards Alkyd 405488 Camo Green 6477
...<snip>

Hi Gina

You must have posted while I was writing my reply so I didn't see your one till today.

No the paint I gave you was later than the 1960s/70s.

When you go to places like the Corowa Swim-In you'll find lots of different hues being the paint restorers were able to find. e.g. My SIII FFR was painted by the previous owner who went to his local paint supplier who found a listing for Land Rover 1980 MoD Green and assumed this was the Australian Department of Defence colour when it's actually a British equivalent of NATO Green.

The issue for me is that my mate (and where I store my Mk3) was a RAEME craftsman in the 1970s and he doesn't like the colour match of Protec Camo Green etc he wants to use the Wattyl colour he used in service because it is the correct colour for the era.

If my vehicle is to live next to his and probably go out together it is better that they both match.

Will try to find a panel to spectrograph off.

[Mrs Vampire]

I feel confident Florite will give you as close a match as is currently possible with commercially available pigment.

I have been told Wattle have moved onto clear bases and new pigments to cut back on the number of colour bases they need to stock. In any case The pigment of the original is still likely to have IR properties.. The Army had been working on that even in the closing days of WWII. The Paracryl recommended seems to be a two pack paint that can't be glossed down below around 20%

I would recommend an Alcyd paint . Eggshell Gloss level (3%) is being used a lot for KG3 as it is maintainable in showroom condition for many years and rejuvenation with baby oil for shows. The original you are seeking was certainly dead flat ( less than 1%) Dead flat cannot be achieved with flatting agents or by mixers like Bunnings etc auto suppliers or even protec except at their factory in SA. .... The flatting agent for dead flat remains Talc and is now only done by factory mixers. Hence Florite or Proteck factories rather than agents and on sellers.

Dead flat of course will mark and scuff fairly easily ( as complained about during the wars) and also is susceptible to Glossing up in the event of oil spills and rubbing... For my own part I am going with dead flat. I want my tank and Gun Tractor to look used as they did when in action. I am not one for Factory show room finishes.

Recent developments with Army security etc etc mean some pigments are now considered not suitable for release for civilian use. But a colour sample and spectrograph will sort that out.

Gina

[Dianaa]

Thanks Gina will look for one.

Thought the M548 would be better in that colour too.

Diana

[Mrs Vampire]

Mike

The problems with the paint from Melbourne are mentioned in Dakins notes as well as a few other places.

I have all the files put on line and I think the links are in this thread. I especially paid to have the Dakin file in Sydney put on line as it contains his original hand written drafts. corrections and editing. Some of the stuff he decided to leave out of the final draft makes for interesting reading.

The file also contained the photos that accompanied the final version but not the pamphlets or the orders as held by the AWM. The orders are likewise very interesting reading.

My understanding was that prewar the vehicles were painted deep bronze green 24 as per the British army. Having seen Mike Starmers sample it seems very very dark indeed.
The photos of Carriers and the Mk VI Vickers seem to have them in a very dark green but Mikes looks a lot darker than even them ...almost black...his notes indicate I would be surprised if the mixing formula was followed and he was right. I was.
I had thought my Stuart was exported in that colour as it was made and exported under a British lend lease contract.Photos of M3A1 ariving in Australia show a very dark all over base colour.

The base colour of My Stuart is not American OD of any shade, Nor is it KG3 Australian or British and it is defiantly not s dark as Mike S' sample of DBG24 ,

My feeling at present is that it is an ACF version of British Camo green ...in a similar way to the Aircraft from the US being exported to British lend lease in Camo Colours of their own invention ( Curtis and Lockheed for instance )

[Mike K]

There must have been many items apart from vehicles, painted in KG3 ?

This is a WW2 era Aust. made capacity meter . The front panel is a different colour than the box ???????? My guess is, a different manufacturer made the case . This item has never been repainted , I can guarantee that.

I have opened many WW2 Aust. wireless sets and the internals are generally clean and the paint is pristine . Mike

[Mike Cecil]

"My feeling at present is that it is an ACF version of British Camo green ...in a similar way to the Aircraft from the US being exported to British lend lease in Camo Colours of their own invention ( Curtis and Lockheed for instance )"

Yes, I think you are most probably right in that conclusion, particularly given the extent to which you have researched the subject.(I think we have all been pretty impressed with that!!)

I wasn't doubting that Dakin made comments about fading of KG-J: but I couldn't comment or add to that, as I hadn't seen those notes, only the one I had about KG-3, which I threw into the mutual information 'mix'.

I haven't spent a lot of time tracing cammo this last year - been a bit preoccupied finishing 'Leopard AS1' and 'Pioneers of Australian Armour'.

PM seen and answered: sample chips packed.

Regards

Mike