Not softskin as such: a 1940 Chev sedan question

[Matt Austin]

I'm not sure where to ask this, but I figure that there are people here who know. I apologise if it isn't appropriate for the softskin forum.

Did the Australian Army use 1940 Chev sedans, particularly the Holden-bodied variety? I have a lead on one and wonder if it's worth chasing from the military perspective.

Thank you for any advice.

Cheers,
Matt

[Keith Webb]

Mike Cecil will be able to tell you more, but I think they did, and many other GM products such as Pontiacs.

[lynx42]

Try these, There might be a clue painted on the firewall under the bonnet. The ARN was painted in 1 inch high white letters and numbers up near the top of the firewall.



My Chev had the dents from the sand channels still visible and a scarf where they had shoved the sand tracks up over the centre of the rear window.



About 140/150 here at Morebank NSW in 1940.



And mine.

Regards Rick.

[Matt Austin]

Fantastic, thanks very much, Rick. Thank you too, Keith.

It's early stages, and I wonder if it's a good idea to have two vehicles on the go, but it's so very tempting. Rick, I might be in touch, if I may. That's a lovely car you've restored. Great work.

Cheers,
Matt

[Mike Cecil]

Rick wrote: 'The ARN was painted in 1 inch high white letters and numbers up near the top of the firewall.' Unusual to see the registration number there, Rick: the underbonnet nomenclature specifications include the make, model and year, but did not include the registration, although this might have been included if space permitted. These underbonnet specs came into existence in mid-1942, with orders for vehs already in service to have the data painted on at Unit level. Naturally, many were not.

Matt: if you have a chassis and engine number for your proposed acquisition, I'll see what can be found. No promises, of course: all services used them, and the RAAF and Navy records are pretty woeful. Rick's been lucky: his research located a known AIF registration, which led to a known departure date from Australia and the ship it went overseas aboard, so a very nice historical example, and well restored to boot.

Mike

[lynx42]

Thanks for the compliments Mike. You helped there 22 years ago. I think we have done about 30.000 miles since 1995 including Darwin, Canberra, Sydney, Adelaide, Alice Springs and many other places including "The Border Track" , the State boundary between Victoria and South Australia. That run is a 4 wheel drive one way (South) trip due to the desert and many sand dunes. Most of the trips include a No.3 Jeep trailer, (IHC No.7) hanging on the back.

I have seen 3 1940 Chev Staff cars with the ARN painted on the fire wall. Maybe it was a workshops idea prior to a repaint?

Regards Rick.

[Matt Austin]

Thanks very much, Mike. I'll see what I can find out. I'm in discussions with the owner, who is quite helpful and friendly. He has restored a similar vehicle, and picked up the Chev for parts. It's practically complete, though, and appears to be largely rust-free. I believe it spent a lot of time away from the coast.

It'd be interesting (but probably hard to establish) how much of Australian 1940 Chev production was for military use?

Thank you, gentlemen, for your input and assistance. I do enjoy the learning that I'm gaining at MLU.

Cheers,
Matt

[Mike Cecil]

That long ago?? Hell! Doesn't seem like it.

ARNs in the underbonnet nomenclature: I've make a note of that for future reference (cited as C**e, R, pers comm via MLU 6/2015, naturally!)

Matt: given the circumstances, I should think a significant proportion of the 1940 GMH 4-door car production went to military use. It is an interesting question I have not looked at specifically (but now will)

Mike

[Matt Austin]

Well, after much discussion, thought, and consideration, it looks like this vehicle may be coming my way.

After some wise words from a couple of experienced forum members about the importance of focus, I've decided that the Chev has a few advantages.

The vehicle in question is in pretty good condition for 75 years of age. It has a bit of rust in the usual places, but my aviation restoration contacts and past mean that this is not an insurmountable issue. The structure is straight and eminently restorable. Being a sedan, it's far more family-friendly, and my mechanic mate has experience with the Chev Stovebolt sixes. And it's something that is fairly practical to potter around town in!

If this sounds like I'm trying to justify it to myself, then that's probably right! I don't want to go too silly with this interest, but I think a car and a truck are still manageable.

Now, I'm wondering about the vehicle itself. The paint code is listed as 9NDRF, of which I have no reference. I was hoping for KHAKI, which would have suggested an Army contract, but no such luck. The current colour of the exterior and engine bay can be seen. I wonder if i'm imagining green paint under the blue exterior finish, or just dark grey primer?

Anyway, the constructor's number is 8964, but I don't know if that can be matched with a military number. I'd like to hope it's ex-military, but if it isn't I wonder if it's fair to do it up in a military scheme, like the one pictured in the AWM pic I've attached?

The Inter K5 is out of harm's way and I'm acquiring parts and materials for the rebuild. I have time and space, and am aiming for the Year of the Inter in 2017. I've been clearing the shed out, so undercover storage and rebuild space is available.

So, the fun continues. I have some decisions to make!

Cheers,
Matt

[Mike Cecil]

Matt,

Nice looking find, and as I think Lynx42 will tell you, lots of torque and a nice ride. For an ID, what we need is the chassis number, then there is a chance to narrow it down.

Regards

Mike

[Matt Austin]

Thanks Mike.

Once I get the chance, I'll examine the chassis for the number. It'll be interesting to see if anything can be found.

Cheers,
Matt

[Matt Austin]

Just out of curiosity, folks, how common are these cars today? I've seen Rick's example, another in all-over khaki, and a handful in civilian trim. I haven had a great deal of luck in finding out much about them generally, although I have managed to pick up a couples of manuals.

A couple of friends own '39 examples, so I imagine the same positives and negatives apply. Are engines and parts available? Do people have any advice that you may like to share? It's a learning experience for me. I have access to comprehensive vintage aviation restoration facilities, so the tin work is under control.

There are some great pics on the Australian War Memorial site, and these have given me a few ideas.

Cheers,
Matt

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Matt Austin

Just out of curiosity, folks, how common are these cars today? I've seen Rick's example, another in all-over khaki, and a handful in civilian trim. I haven had a great deal of luck in finding out much about them generally, although I have managed to pick up a couples of manuals.

A couple of friends own '39 examples, so I imagine the same positives and negatives apply. Are engines and parts available? Do people have any advice that you may like to share? It's a learning experience for me. I have access to comprehensive vintage aviation restoration facilities, so the tin work is under control.

There are some great pics on the Australian War Memorial site, and these have given me a few ideas.

Cheers,
Matt

Matt

The treasurer of the MV club down here (VMVC) has had one for sale for many years , he did some restoration work on it and he's trying to get his money back .

They are reasonably common. I've seen a few around but how many of them are military ?

Being a Chev , parts are no problem .

[Matt Austin]

Thanks Mike. Is the one you've mentioned a green one, based in Seaford?

All indicators point to it being a fairly straightforward process. But, as we all know, the indicators are often way off the mark! Time will tell...

Cheers,
Matt

[Mike Cecil]

Have you got it home yet, and have you had a chance to locate the chassis number? We look forward to some more images.

The AWM also has an example. It is restored and stored at the Annex.

Mike C

[Matt Austin]

Hi Mike,

Not home yet, it's in South Australia, and transport is being arranged. He's a retired gentleman, so I haven't pressed for the chassis number. Would it be on the LHS chassis rail towards the front of the vehicle?

More pics to follow.

Cheers,
Matt

[lynx42]

Hi Matt,

The chassis number is behind the front wheel on the vertical face of the left chassis rail. It should start with 40****. Mine is 40 308. There is a small gap between the 40 and the 308. The numbers are lightly stamped and about 5/8 inch high.

Regards Rick.

[Mike Cecil]

My answer to your q, Matt was going to be 'dunno .... Rick or Mike K will know'.... and Rick did!

Mike C

[Mike K]

Matt

The Holden production numbers at Woodville .

1940 Standard sedan 1599

1940 Master sedan 2129

I think the Master has the independant knee front suspension .

Interesting , they don't list any specific military sedans for 1940 but they do for 1942 . Maybe the military issued 1940 cars are included in those 1940 figures ?

1942 has 620 AMF deluxe sedan bodies listed . I suspect these are actually 1941 style bodies . 1942 also has a few refugee bodies assembled at Woodville , these were Chev , Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick and divimpro cabs whatever that is, all under 30 units each .

The Fishermens Bend factory was mostly manufacturing 'special' bodies with Woodville doing the bulk of the actual mass produced bodies

Mike

[Bill Murray]

Re: Divimpro

I found this a minute ago.
Bill

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=617

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Bill Murray

Re: Divimpro

I found this a minute ago.
Bill

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=617

Ahh then DIVIMPRO in the Woodville data could be referring to the updated GMH made Chev truck cabs that were fitted with the opening windscreen and other modifications . Ive seen a few of those cabs myself .

Pictured is a GMH ute in the Western desert with the DIVIMPRO cab , the windscreen frame was brass, the hinges are visible .

[Mike Cecil]

From the thread referred to:

"It appears to be the abbreviation for "Divisional Improvements" and arose out of the field experiences of the 7th and 9th Divisions in the Western Desert. The improvements were field modifications to the Ford vehicles as they were found wanting in areas of their construction with these modifications subsequently being adopted by Ford."

The above is incorrect: DIVIMPRO is the 'Division of Import Procurement' - the wartime mob charged with actually doing deals with foreign entities, coordinating requirements of all government departments and other approved users, allocating priorities, and distributing to govt depts and approved users (doctors, farmers, manufacturers, miners, etc) what actually arrived in Australia (rather than what was ordered). It was not just concerned with MVs, but all imported items. It was a division within the Department of Trade and Customs.

It had nothing to do with construction specs issued by Army to the supplier, which were being continually improved based upon a variety of factors including operational experience.

Mike C

[Bill Murray]

Thanks very much, Mike!!!

I had no idea and the link seemed to make sense so I posted it.

Glad to get the correct answer.

Bill

[Matt Austin]

Rick, thank you very much for your assistance. I'll find out ASAP and report back.

Mike, Bill, and Mike, thank you for your input. The production details are quite interesting. I think that the DIVIMPRO story would be well worth a read, although I cant see myself getting the opportunity to spend a few months, scouring the various archives where such information may be found.

I'm speaking with a friend whose mother was a driver during the war. I'm not sure of her health, but it'd be interesting to hear her story.

Cheers,
Matt

[Matt Austin]

Well, the car is home. I've had a good initial look at it, and an happy with its general condition. The paint code, SNDRFT, is Sandrift, a 1940-only colour, and not military. I was hoping for khaki, but I can't complain. I've looked for the chassis number without success, but will go over the area with WD40 in the next day or so.

The car has tinworm in the guards and doors, as to be expected. No rust of any substance in the body. Engine is seized but a spare is on its way. Everything except wipers and wiper motors has come with the car.

So I'm pleased. More to follow.

Cheers,
Matt

[lynx42]

Certainly a nice start, Matt. I hope you have as much fun as we have in ours. We don't always get home unaided and in one piece but RACV Total Care is the way to go.

Last weekend I had a minor mishap. We have been having trouble for months. It is like there is either fuel starvation or major flooding. She goes well for about 25km. then seems to starve or flood. I have replaced the fuel pump, carby, distributor, coil, all high tension leads etc, etc but to no avail. Then this happened 100 metres up the road after dying on the side of the road and getting going again. I drove home the last few km's. after this and parked her in the shed so I still have to sort things out. Maybe it is a blocked exhaust pipe somewhere.



Regards Rick.

[Mike K]

That's a neat project Matt ,

If there are no signs of military use it may have been owned by a doctor or a hire car business during the war. Does it have the 216 engine in situ ? Mike

[Euan McDonald]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Certainly a nice start, Matt. I hope you have as much fun as we have in ours. We don't always get home unaided and in one piece but RACV Total Care is the way to go.

Last weekend I had a minor mishap. We have been having trouble for months. It is like there is either fuel starvation or major flooding. She goes well for about 25km. then seems to starve or flood. I have replaced the fuel pump, carby, distributor, coil, all high tension leads etc, etc but to no avail. Then this happened 100 metres up the road after dying on the side of the road and getting going again. I drove home the last few km's. after this and parked her in the shed so I still have to sort things out. Maybe it is a blocked exhaust pipe somewhere.

Attachment 77307

Regards Rick.

Warning Rick, your muffler explosion would have been caused by a back fire/build up of unburnt fuel in the exhaust. This is the same fault that burnt Hugh's Pontiac to the ground. The only difference was his split with the seem facing upwards causing the floor to heat up and burn the seat padding.

[Matt Austin]

Thanks folks.

I've started an inventory to check what is missing. It came with a few boxes of spares, plus a heap of spare glass, and it all looks pretty good. There is surprisingly little rust, and the tinworm in the doors and guards is to be expected. The headlining is excellent, the seats need a lot of work, and the engine is an unknown quantity. I have a spare engine coming, which was running last year when it was pulled out of a '46 truck. I haven't started looking at the electrics, but I have a few ideas and questions which may be a topic for another post down the track a little.

Cheers,
Matt

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Matt

The treasurer of the MV club down here (VMVC) has had one for sale for many years , he did some restoration work on it and he's trying to get his money back .

They are reasonably common. I've seen a few around but how many of them are military ?

Being a Chev , parts are no problem .

The car is still for sale 7.5 K $