Historic Vehicle Plates: Pros/Cons in Ontario, Canada

[Stuart Fedak]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Oh, I have too. I also had a frustrating talk with MTO on the issue. The guy was adamant that the historic provisions did not exempt a vehicle from being 'commercial' based on weight, so the commercial regs applied even it was historic (and, I hate to admit it, a strict reading of the law based on what it says...and doesn't say...with regard to exemptions tends to support this interpretation). I think the trucks you see out there had the owner apply for plates based on age and simply not mention weight, or if they did the licensing office hadn't conferred with my MTO friend. My concern, like any other when dealing with the law and insurance, is that everything goes fine until there is an accident and then all these issues come up and you get in a heap of trouble.

In the area of jurisprudence, this is what is referred to the act remains silent on Historic Vehicle. The regulations do not specifically include or exclude the requirements of some historic vehicles that would normally be commercial trucks.

There are those who believe that the historic vehicle plate excludes them from the requirements of commercial trucks. There are also those who believe that not withstanding the Historic Vehicle plate, that the requirement under law would be to comply with all requirements for annual safety, daily log of inspection and all other requirements of commercial trucks.

In law, when an act remains silent on certain issues, it is usually assumed that the higher standard would apply in all other areas. This concept means that if your vehicle has historic plates, that notwithstanding the historic vehicle plate, that all standards that would apply to such a vehicle, would be in force. That is usually the standard that would be applied in cases of litigation.

I think the intent of the historic vehicle plates would NOT have been to create a mechanism for unsafe vehicles to drive on the public highways. The general public good would demand that any historic vehicle be as safe as any other vehicle on the highway.

In Ontario every year we have tires and other objects falling off commercial trucks that result in accidents and deaths. I think the requirement to prove documentation of ongoing safety aspects of any commercial/historic vehicle are reasonable.

Your thoughts?

Stuart

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I think "don't ask, don't tell" will get you a plate and insurance but I'd want to be on solid ground if there is a historic exemption for large, 'commercial' ones. If there isn't I wonder how far it goes? Would you need all those amber lights on the corners and top? That would somewhat ruin the authenticity. I also wonder what you would have to do to get trailer plates for a large trailer, say a four wheel 40cwt CMP type. There is no 'historic' trailer plate and your restoration would most likely be treated as a new trailer. Would that mean reflective red/white strips down its khaki side? Lastly, I imagine weight will also determine the class of driver's license you need to operate it. Even with historic plates your 'G' license won't allow you to operate something large enough to require a higher class.

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

In the area of jurisprudence, this is what is referred to the act remains silent on Historic Vehicle. The regulations do not specifically include or exclude the requirements of some historic vehicles that would normally be commercial trucks.

There are those who believe that the historic vehicle plate excludes them from the requirements of commercial trucks. There are also those who believe that not withstanding the Historic Vehicle plate, that the requirement under law would be to comply with all requirements for annual safety, daily log of inspection and all other requirements of commercial trucks.

In law, when an act remains silent on certain issues, it is usually assumed that the higher standard would apply in all other areas. This concept means that if your vehicle has historic plates, that notwithstanding the historic vehicle plate, that all standards that would apply to such a vehicle, would be in force. That is usually the standard that would be applied in cases of litigation.

I think the intent of the historic vehicle plates would NOT have been to create a mechanism for unsafe vehicles to drive on the public highways. The general public good would demand that any historic vehicle be as safe as any other vehicle on the highway.

In Ontario every year we have tires and other objects falling off commercial trucks that result in accidents and deaths. I think the requirement to prove documentation of ongoing safety aspects of any commercial/historic vehicle are reasonable.

Your thoughts?

Stuart

[Harry Moon]

Procedures were pretty much in place when I came along in part to that tragedy many years ago. At the meetings annual events and regular trips are mentioned in the minutes and from time to time listed on Facebook, and the newsletter. For individuals who may be spread out sometimes some 100's of miles away the procedure is to email one of the executive with your date and purpose, who is participating and an executive member will reply and I instruct to print it out and keep the email with you.
So when Drew and Tami want to take out their ferret to a cruise in or tour around and they are all the way up in Salmo they are approved. I always add the caution of not to work or to school (unless part of a display or commemoration).
So far no problems and as from time to time we question our good fortune with the ICBC Vintage plates Vs. collector plates (another story) I only recently inquired if we could get a speaker from ICBC to come out to a meeting to answer questions. We have a convoy planned for 2016 to go to the MVPA convention in California. We frown on trailer queens!

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,

Just for comparison purposes , i will chime in to give you some info about the Québec situation.

Historic vehicule plates ( more than 25 years since manufacture ) in Québec allow you to drive only on roads that are posted at 70 KM/hr or less . The only exception is when you are headed to a documented bona fide historical vehicule event and back on the day of the event. No other exceptions.

Plus, if your truck's gross weight ( weight of truck plus allowable cargo ) in at more than 4500 Kgs ( Say a CMP Chev C-15 G.S. ) , you have a commercial truck even if it was made 100 years ago..So , you are limited to roads posted at 70 Km/hr or less AND you have to have a yearly inspection, stop at weighing stations , proper driver's licence and have a logbook.

Except for reduced insurance ( ?) and licencing fees ( $104.45 vs $222.58 ) , no real advantage in Québec.

Cheers .

Bob

[Robin Craig]

I knew this one would spin up a bit, nice to see some great posts.

This is a public forum and open to reading by anyone.

There are many people who drive vehicles for which they have lied by omission or just plain lied in some part of the process.

There is no requirement to get an historic plate to get the lower insurance rate offered by the specialist policy folks. My Land Rover 1 Tonne has regular black plates. Insurance is something like $150 a year.

As far as the big trucks go, when I do the ones for my employer that are all registered 100% properly and weighed and safetied every year that they are on the road and that is purely based on their weight, not their usage. That also calls for an emission test. We have two Bedford MJs and an M818 with a Rogers trailer. If it is decided that they will be on the road they get the works.

We also do a lease up and use a CVOR of a commercial company and carry the papers. Its all legit. Daily trip inspections are done as well.

And FYI there is no need for rows of orange lights etc as they are tested on the basis of " fitted at time of manufacture" as befits the vehicles that have come in on the 15 year rule.

At your peril if you don't. Around here Kingston Police are very zealous in their inspection of anything that moves. My co workers and I often get pulled with nothing in a pick up truck, let alone something bigger.

Once we start showing proper papers on the Bedfords they back right off and I have had zero aggravation. The conversation then becomes a show and tell experience.

Do what you will, but don't go telling MTO you have seen this or that, you just cause aggro for the rest of the folks out there.

[Stuart Fedak]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

I knew this one would spin up a bit, nice to see some great posts.

This is a public forum and open to reading by anyone.

Do what you will, but don't go telling MTO you have seen this or that, you just cause aggro for the rest of the folks out there.

Lots of good comments, and I think I have the answer that I was looking for. In my case of my Canadian Bombardier Iltis 1/4 ton "Jeep", I will not go the route of the Historic Vehicle plates, as it seems to offer no real advantage and it seems to be too restrictive for my personal case.....

For those who do have "Historic Vehicle" plates in Ontario, they should reflect on their own situation and assess if they are still in compliance with the spirit and letter of the law, and if there are additional things such as daily inspections and log, yearly safety inspections that should be performed.

Cheers!
Stuart

[Robert Bergeron]

Stuart,

I have my Iltis licenced as a regular passenger car in Québec and i travel to work, the grocery store, basicly anywere i want to go . I even go to the US ( Maine ) .

It is a great and practical HMV . It even has a heater , a luxury i do not have in my GPW.

Cheers.