Bren Carrier- Supreme Court of Canada decision

[Robert Bergeron]

Hi Lynn ,

Do you get a lot of snow , ice and sleet in NZ and thus practice in such conditions like we do here ?

Did you like the cross examination of the Bren Gun Carrier driver were he says he is driving with one track on the shoulder for better traction ?

Where else but in Canada would any Supreme Court discuss Bren Gun Carrier driving techniques ? We like Carriers in CA-RRIER-NADA .

Did you like it when they called the Carrier a '' Tank '' ?

I certainly waisted a lot of time at work on this one but hey, i laughed so hard i almost lost a filling !

[rob love]

Ice is bad on a carrier, but for a real thrill try cobblestone or brick roadway. That will sober you up quickly.

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Robert, We see a sprinkle on the hills about 30km away, about once every 20 years. It does happen further south. one of my boys skis, but he lives in the South Island.
If I ever drive a carrier in the snow, it is likely to be because I visited Canada at the wrong time of year. So far, my time on your continent comprises about 1 hour in the LAX.
I guess at 8 ton, it had shifted into the "tank" category?.

[charlie fitton]

Originally Posted by rob love

Ice is bad on a carrier, but for a real thrill try cobblestone or brick roadway. That will sober you up quickly.

or a slight dusting of sand on asphalt..

[maple_leaf_eh]

Interesting geography and road maintenance lesson in this case. The Private was doing a road test on Hwy 17 East of Ottawa between Cumberland and what was once LETE in Orleans. How many times have I driven that road? The cleared path was 24 to 26' wide, which is quite narrow by today's standards. (I think a driving lane is only about 10' wide.) The road was cleared, but with light accumulation and somewhat idcy. Seems reasonable for the results of WW2 highway vehicles which used flat plows, scraper boards and rollers versus highspeed plows and chemical deicers and salt.

[Robert Bergeron]

Hi Terry,

Wasn't that facility ( LETE ) taken over by the RCMP ( Royal Canadian Mounted Police for our foreign friends ) ?

Those were sure the days. Going on a track test on Highway 17 !

[RichardT10829]

Carrier driver negotiated the bend to quick...upon losing the grip he became a passenger in his own vehicle... ambulance driver was also negligent as he should also have been driving to the conditions, had he done so he would have been able to safely react and stop in time to avoid the already crashed carrier.

Summary : army cough up please

Ambulance: training/disciplinary for the driver

[rob love]

Not sure you can say that about the ambulance driver without being there for the collision. As the court noted, a driver is entitled to his half of the roadway. So safe distance does not come into play.

If he was following the carrier, then yes, he has a portion of fault. But when someone skids into your lane of travel, there is not really a speed that you could pre-adjust to unless you were going to stop for all oncoming traffic. Even then people could skid into you. The court had it right: carrier driver was driving too fast for road conditions. The proof? He lost control.

Unbelievable that something like this could make it into the supreme court. As noted previously, the crown would seem to have some self serving interests in this. Even back then, the lawyers bills must surely have come out to more than the less than $500 that the judgement was for. In this day and age, a supreme court hearing will cost you way more than your house is worth.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Did you like the cross examination of the Bren Gun Carrier driver were he says he is driving with one track on the shoulder for better traction ?

I recall having to do this with a 5/4 ton MRT here in Manitoba from Shilo to Winnipeg. The asphalt was sheer ice, we had been in the field for 2 weeks, we were delayed from leaving, and the roadmove was over an hour ahead of us. It was "high lock" all the way with 2 wheels on the black, and 2 wheels on the gravel shoulder. I can't recall if we were doing 90 kmh or 120kmh.......it can't be the second one as that would not have been legal so it must have been the 90 kmh. I do recall that we used up both tanks of fuel for the 200 km trip.

As we got past Portage La Prairie, the 5/4 ambulance was laying abandoned on it's side in the center ditch. According to the driver, the wind hit them and blew them right off the road.

Ahhh, for the youthful days of immortality. Back then, if we were driving the M113s down the trans-Canada, and the RCMP told us the road was closed due to the poor conditions, we woudl just go the rest of the way in the ditch.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Robert

Thanks for sharing this one with us, got to be one of the stranger Military Vehicle stories. Read the case summary from your link, and I will have to share it with some of the lawyers who are into Military Vehicles.

Cheers Phil

[Robert Bergeron]

Very welcome Phil.

This hobby is not just about nuts and bolts, grease and oil.

There is also a little legal '' bullshit '' involved , just like life in general .

As long as the legal bullshit does not take too much fun out of the activity, all is well.

[Robert Bergeron]

Read the damn decision again today and almost lost it again i had so much fun .

The world as changed so much since 1943 .

Still the lawyers are there to pest us..

[Robert Bergeron]

Friends,


Did i ever tell you what my profession was ?

[Michael R.]

Cheer up Robert, things could be worse.