Dischargers, smoke generator, 4 inch

[Jim Burrill]

As David Gordon says, we can have a live, fireable discharger here.

I have plans afoot to make an actual smoke canister that meets local reenactment safety guidelines.

Essentially, smoke compound as used for paintball games filling a cardboard cylinder, all made with no metal parts and weighing no more than one pound.

A blank .303 to ignite it and throw it down range a bit. Not an accurate tactical recreation in distance and duration, but usable for reenacting displays.

Intend to mount them on the Humber Mk4 Armoured car.

[Ron Pier]

Thanks Marco. I'll give the dimensions to my brother in law to save him saving all those wrong size oil filters. Ron

[wheaty]

Launching rounds are NOT blanks?????
The proper cartridge had a charge of BALLISTITE
A blank charge is a much faster powder and will result in major damage if attempting to launch a canister.
Blanks are manufactured for sound and effect with no barrel restrictions unless used in a semi auto. Restrictors were used for some arms however as a shredder in the case of a wooden bullet blank.

[Lynn Eades]

To add to that, The ballistite 303 has a flat end. (finished with a purple sealer)
The blank is crimped (like a shot gun cartridge) to a blunt point. At least that is what I have seen.

[wheaty]

Blanks had many forms, but you are correct in that most launching rounds did have a rolled crimp and wad.
Some blanks had a roll crimp and wad, short crimp, full bullet length crimp and of course the wooden bullet blank.
Many of the "blanks" around and especially if WW I dated are mortar igniter rounds and do look like blanks but are for use in large mortars and some naval guns.

[Larry Mass]

Hi David I would dearly love to get a copy of the plans that you got from Enfield Arsenal I was wandering if you could photo copy them I will shoot you some cash. I an just working on my carrier an would like to have a discharger, I do have the cup and I did manufacture a number 1 action on to it but I don't know if it is correct. Your plans would help me out deciding on how long the barrel how thick etc.

Larry

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hello David,

A friend of mine, who is a class 5 arms dealer in the UK, made a batch of these smoke dischargers copying my example lying at the front in the first photo. Is my example matching the machinist drawings you have?

smoke dischargers 001.jpg smoke dischargers 003.jpg

There may still be a couple left for sale but not sure. It would be for UK buyers only and they come with deact certificate. Anyone interested drop me a PM and I will get you his contact details.

Cheers,

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Jim Burrill

As David Gordon says, we can have a live, fireable discharger here.

I have plans afoot to make an actual smoke canister that meets local reenactment safety guidelines.

Essentially, smoke compound as used for paintball games filling a cardboard cylinder, all made with no metal parts and weighing no more than one pound.

A blank .303 to ignite it and throw it down range a bit. Not an accurate tactical recreation in distance and duration, but usable for reenacting displays.

Intend to mount them on the Humber Mk4 Armoured car.

Hmmm....

Have a word with your local pyrotechnics/firework manufacturer, since the obvious choice is a 4" cylindrical shell, suitably modified (no lifting charge bag/cone and a very short delay fuse - mainly to prevent the launch charge from blowing straight through and dismantling the shell before it leaves the tube) and loaded with your smoke composition and (obviously) no bursting charge - vents needed to let the smoke out, of course! Launch with a blank cartridge loaded with coarse grained black powder - one of the "cannon" grades ought to do it, because you don't want high velocity. (Nor anyone downrange of it!) And BE CAREFUL!

It would be completely illegal to produce these in the UK (unless you hold a manufacturing licence, etc.), so don't even think about it. (See the various bits of legislation (Explosives Act(s), Control Of Explosives Regulations, HSE rules, etc.) The quantity required would be commercially uneconomical, including having them made in China, (without considering the UK testing required (at your expense) before they would be allowed into the country).

Pyrotechnic manufacture being a permitted hobby/small business in parts of the USA means that you could probably get something suitable produced in small batches.

Careful testing is essential: some smoke compositions do not play nicely if firmly initiated (or overly contained - even a heap may suffice) and can explode(1). Especially test what happens if the delay element is omitted and the lifting charge blows straight through into the smoke composition!(2)

Chris. (4)
(1) Umpteen(3) years ago we discovered what would happen if theatrical smoke powder was used in excessive quantities (or added to flash powder) - you get more bang than you bargained for and very little smoke.
(2) I recall a 75mm cylinder maroon that went off in the tube, entirely too close to where I was standing, due to the "lift" blowing through or a faulty delay element. I Do Not Want To Experience That Again!
(3) Back in 1984, I think... or possibly 1982.
(4) BPA Level 2, which means I get to do the risk assessments for our displays.

[Jim Burrill]

Great info! All cautions to investigate with our project.

So far..... over here, a smoke pot with no illumination, or noise-bangs is not illegal to have. No license required or storage requirements for home hobbiest quantities.

The licensed part would be getting the BATF tax stamp for a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) before cutting a shooting SMLE down to the right measurements. We have that sorted.

It may be that a manufactured .303 blank may not have the right charge....pressure, duration, lift... so we may find in testing that we need to hand load some discharger-only blanks.

Obviously, starting with the weakest charge and working up. And with blast shielding and other safety gear on and available during the testing.

It is common here to use No1 SMLEs with the clamp on grenade cup to fire tennis balls using a common blank. Usually blows a hole in the bottom, but not through the ball, so it goes downrange about 150 meters.

While "farby" the yellow balls allow us to police the field for trash after a tactical. We just have to "honor" the strike and either take the hit, or let the umpires note the effect on troops/vehicles. Yes, play acting, but a 100 man tactical event with no logistics trail is not really realistic for a war. But not too bad for a taste of the experiance and keeping safety foremost.

[Larry Mass]

Just wondering if the bracket to mount the smoke discharger to hull is cast, it kinda looks like it on photos. Has any one reproduced these or have an original that they might want to get rid of.
Larry

[Michael R.]

Yes, the hull bracket on the MK-I* is cast. Bronze. Hence few and far between of the originals exist. Ben H. had copies made circa 2012/2013, in woodpecker lip cast steel. The MK-I* bracket is not interchangeable with the MK-II*.

(I am reliably advised by a good friend that original examples of UC MK-I and UC MK-I* smoke discharger hull mounting brackets can be found in steel) Kia ora L.E.

While the Quebec made Ross M-10 .303BRIT action was used for Canadian Universal Carriers, the MK-I* was remotely fired by attached cable, while the MK-II* was a conventional 'finger on trigger' release.


http://mapleleafup.net/forums/showpo...69&postcount=1

[Lynn Eades]

What is the diff. between the two?

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

What is the diff. between the two?

Do you mean the Mk1 and Mk2 bracket Lynn?

Mk2 is fitted inside the gunners armour and a different shape to the Mk1. To my knowledge they were always made in steel. Ron.

[wheaty]

This is how you will normally find the cartridges for the launcher.

[rob love]

Good news: I had Clive scan the booklet from cover to cover and now have a PDF file that I can email. If you want a copy, simply

PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

Feel free to share it with your friends, but not for redistribution for commercial means.

[cpetronis]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the great info posted so far. Hopefully quick question here. Does anybody know what the original diameter is for the hole which transmits the ballasite (sp?) round's force from the breech, into the cup discharger?
I hope the wording that question made sense. Thanks - Chris