POR 15 or Chassis Saver Paint in Ontario

[Stuart Fedak]

Text removed as information is no longer current

[rob love]

POR-15 is usually available from Canadian tire these days in the quart cans.

I have never tried the chassis saver, and the reports from the web are mixed, with the owner saying they are the same and the odd guy saying the chassis saver is lacking. If they are the same, then it is possible to get bad results with both from as little as a drop of perspiration falling into the can.

While the POR-15 is cheaper by the gallon, too often you will just end up with a huge hockey puck after opening the can a dozen times, or having to destroy the lid to get it off after the paint adheres it shut.

A quick online check shows stock in all the Ottawa area Cdn tires. I personally like checking for stock online. Otherwise, I drive all the way to the store to find they are out, and then spend money on stuff I didn't know I needed.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/automo...ontent=Default

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I think POR has a public store in Grimsby, just east of Hamilton (Ontario, Canada). They would have their entire range of products and the pricing on line is less than Canadian Tire.

[rob love]

Canadian tire also sells the POR-15 metal prep. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/me...l#.Vsk7f1JA5Yk

Prior to metal prep, there can be no paint and the metal has to be degreased. For degreaser, I use TSP (trisodiumphosphate), which is available at just about any hardware store.

Personally, there are only two kinds of etching that I like: flash rust or else sandblasting. If you apply POR-15 on a smooth surface, odds are it will peel off like a film sheet.

If you are going to prefair, check to see if they got in those pelican storage containers.... I am looking for one. Am happy to pay reasonable markup and postage. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=25265

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by rob love

...


A quick online check shows stock in all the Ottawa area Cdn tires. I personally like checking for stock online. Otherwise, I drive all the way to the store to find they are out, and then spend money on stuff I didn't know I needed.

....

Who hasn't played that game?

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by rob love

Personally, there are only two kinds of etching that I like: flash rust or else sandblasting. If you apply POR-15 on a smooth surface, odds are it will peel off like a film sheet.

Hi Rob,

I just obtained some Grey POR 15 to paint the insides of my 16" wheel to aid mounting and removal of the tyres as suggested in this forum.

I am new to this product and would welcome some info from forum members who have used POR 15.

I had already painted 5 of them with etch primer and have read the pamphlet that comes with the paint so I don't really want to remove it if I don't have to. The pamphlet does not specifically say it wont stick to other paints so has anyone else painted over etch primer, or any other paint, with POR 15 and found any problems? I did try a small test swatch on the etch primer and even a ball peen hammer would not shift it! That doesn't mean it could not fail to adhere with time however. You can see the shiny grey bit on the upper right side of the wheel.

The comments on peeling off smooth metal are interesting. I went back over the rim with flap disks to smooth out a bit more of the pitting before the POR 15 goes on. (The rims were originally soaked in molasses and water to remove all the rust) I finished it with a 120 grit disk so it is fairly smooth in places. Would there be enough small scratches in the steel from the flap disk to make a good key for the POR 15 or should I go the flash rust method? That's easy enough to do if I brush it with metal prep, wash it off, and leave it overnight.
One of the 5 wheels is virtually a new wheel, smooth, and free of rust so will need "roughening up" on that basis for the POR 15 to adhere.

All ideas on the subject gratefully received.

Cheers,

[rob love]

It is my understanding that the POR-15 leaches into the metal. The surface must be clean of any grease or contaminate. Even wiping the surface down with a chemical that will leave a residue will not give the best results and at worst could cause the paint to peel in a large sheet. I have seen where the POR-15 will fish eye from things like fingerprints or minute amounts of grease.

I cannot say what the results would be with the etch primer. POR-15 does not adhere to other paints, although it will adhere to itself if applied within a few weeks.

The manufacturer also says you need to do one very light coat, then once it has cured, you can go with a heavier coat. Once that coat starts to cure, but you can touch it with your finger without getting paint on your finger, you can top coat. I find that top coating with an enamel at that point the much cheaper enamel will take on some of the properties of the POR-15 like the hardness and resistance to brake fluid. If you wait until the POR-15 has dried, then you have to rough sand it, prime it and then apply your top coat.

If you feel your metal is too shiny, rough it up with some 100 grit emery cloth. That will give the POR-15 something to cling to.

I normally sandblast before applying the POR-15, or else have painted it over rusted surfaces after hitting them with a wire brush to remove any loose material. Both ways look great.

I have sprayed POR-15 form a gun, but you will want to wear a full face mask at a minimum if you go that route. You will also want to clean your gun fairly quickly afterwards. I use xylene to reduce it, and xylene to clean up afterwards. I'll also use it to clean any that I get on my skin. It won't clean it up completely from the skin, but it'll come close. Otherwise, you will be waiting a couple weeks for the top layer of your skin to shed before the paint is gone from your hands. Surgical gloves come in handy when painting or moving freshly painted objects.

There is another thread from not that long ago on the POR-15 and the experience of others. Check it out here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ighlight=por15

[Jordan Baker]

Stuart.

I've bought my supply of POR15 products direct from the people in Grimsby. They are great to deal with. Give them a call as they may supply a store in Ottawa. Another option if you'd like, I'd be happy to pickup an order for you and bring to either the OMVA swap meet in a few weeks or up to Ottawa for the Tulip Festival.

The only downside with buying from Canadian Tire is I found at least locally they only stock gloss black and you don't know if it's old stock.

Jacques, the POR15 should stick ok but it may only stick as well as your etch primer sticks. I've found best results is to paint direct to metal. Even when I sandblast I still do the degrease spray/rinse/dry and then spray on the metal prep etch from POR. I let it stand for the required time and then rinse again and let dry. Once it's dry I'll brush off any white powder residue and then paint the POR. If I'm top coating I prefer to use the semi gloss black. The gloss they sell really self levels to a mirror finish and I prefer ha I got a finish with a bit of an edge/surface for the tie coat primer to stick better.

[Bob Carriere]

Malmberg truck centre on Micheal has POR in stock..... always best to callfirst since most of their inventory is located in Gatineau....... you ca cross the birdge and pick it up ot have them send it ot the Michael street location..... more expensive than buying on line.

Trick to save POR.....

Get some cheap canning jars in 500ml or one 1000ml...... open the can.....pour into a paper coffee cup to do the job at hand..... pour the left over in the can into the glass jars as full as possible.....place half of a zip lock sadnwixh bag over the mouth of the jar and screw the lid on tight...... I have kept near full jar of POR for over a year.

Plastic will keep the lid formpermanently gluing itself ot the jar...... the cheaper gallon will yeild over 3 full 1Litre jars

Even used small 250 ml jam jars for small amount of left over quite succesfully.

Remember to put on good thick nytrile rubber gloves before even picking up a can!!!!!

Cheers

[Bob Carriere]

The guide from Jordan is accurate.

POR prefers a slightly etched surface.

Sandblast tecture is best.
Followed by degreasing allow to dry
Followed by Phosphoric acid spray allow to dry
wipe off the white dust left over from the acid solution.
Watch for fingerprint they will cause fisheyes.... clean rubber cloves are cheap insurance.

Coating POR with self etching and or directly on tacky POR has given me crackled paint..... so I let it cure fully before spraying the self etching.

POR also sells a Tie coat... baby blue... very thick self leveling sandable primer to cover POR..... on pitted frames it works fantastic once cured any top paint will adhere. BUT the tie coat is thick and you will loose some details on smaller parts and I then prefere to use the spray can of self etching primer.

Spray painting with POR is quite feasible even if very dangerous....... I would never do it inside..... there are no face mask that will properly filter the fumes which can harden in your lungs for permanent damage.

Done outside in open air...preferably in a rural area...... no near neighbours, kids or pets is safer. I still use a comprehensive face cartrige filter, stay up wind of any drifting paint, wear old clothes, and wear a grinding face mast over your glasses as you cannot wipe POR driplets from the lens.....ask me how I know.

POR sprayed is very light and can run like crazy..... removing runs requires the part to be sandblasted and even them is it difficult to remove. Best sprayed in light coats or on flat surfaces.
Bolt theads and captive nuts will require cleaning with a tap and die.

If you use paint brushes buy cheap ones and discard.. not worth trying to clean them.

I only use POR supplied reducer and because it is so thin in consistency I hardly need to use any when spraying.

I use cheap gun wash at $35 for a 5 gallons which is a recycled mixture of xylene, tuolene, MEK, eye of a bat. etc which is strong enough to clean the guns..... and gun cleaning has to be done immediately///// if you second coat..... clean the gun first...let the parts get tacky and reset up the gun again.

It is wonderful stuff.... a bit expensive but done right is very permanent.

The gloss is best used on inner sections of CMP rims ...... I to prefer the semigloss and self etching for most jobs.

Just finished reskinning my doors and will be carefully dripping POR around all the inner edges... it will flow into the smallest crevasses to bond and seal..... messy has it will drip on the barn floor but very effective.

If you like to wear a belt and suspender POR is for you.


Done carefully it is safe.

Cheers

PS.... the new shinny door skins will be buffed with 300 grit sand paper to insure the POR will adhere. The inside has already been buffed and painted with POR except for the edges where it will be spot welded........ that is why I will drip POR to seal the edges..... spot welded surface edges were cleaned with acetone prior to spot welding.

[Jacques Reed]

To Rob, Jordan, and Bob,

Thanks for all the great info and handy hints on preparation, storing, and cleanup of POR 15.

Think I will go the disposable brush route as opposed to spraying as it is a moot point trying to get a perfect finish on an already pitted pieces of steel that is hidden from view anyway. The only purpose, in my case, is to make the tyres go on and off easier and prevent rusting inside the wheels.

I don't really want to invest in a full painters hood either for a once off job and after reading the posts would not consider spraying it with anything less than that PPE. It's pretty nasty stuff along with the cleanup chemicals if not handled properly.

I had tried the old painter's trick of wrapping the brush in plastic food wrap between the two test coats on the wheel. It doesn't work. An hour later the bristles were as stiff as a board. Luckily it was an old el cheapo brush, and so was the second.

Cheers,

[Bob Carriere]

A word of caution.....

some foam or plastic cup or certain small food container will dissolve the cup before you finish painting the POR.....

Similarly some black foam paint brush with melt in POR......

Jacques..... I hope you have read the thread on installing tires on CMP rims..... the POR will help greatly......I encourage you to make your own device to facilitate the installation...... the time it will save you will be worth your while.

Keep us posted with pictures of you progress.... some of us can't read!!!

A tip to save you eye glasses......smear you lens with your own body oil from your forehead.... it will look a bit blurry BUT the POR will not stick to the lens.

did we say nasty stuff???

Bob

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Bob,

The great tips just keep on coming! Many thanks.

Yes, have been following the tyre thread with great interest.
I am very lucky that I scored a set of 5 NOS Dunlop Trak Grips many years ago and later purchased a set of Simex T24s which I believe were ex-Singapore or Malaysian military. They were made from the Dunlop T24 moulds for British wheels.

Needless to say, the original Dunlop's slipped on easily on just cleaned and primed rims using only rubber lubricant. No tools required.

I decided in view of their rarity, not to use the Dunlops and keep them for display purposes only plus the Simex tyres were over 50 years newer and therefore I felt safer for road use. These will go on the POR 15 painted wheels.
Measurements indicate they are the same bead profile and 5 degree angle as the Dunlops but I want to give myself every advantage of slipping them on, and more importantly, slipping them off the rims, should the need arise hence the POR 15.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

did we say nasty stuff???

Bob

Only if you consider MEK, Xylene, and Toluene safe!

PPE absolutely essential.

Cheers,

[rob love]

Of the 3, I consider the Xylene relatively safe. I do not like the other two.

[Jacques Reed]

Don't want to get too far off topic of POR 15 but it is always good to know what is in the thinners and spray gun cleaning solvents we use.

As most of us know, it all about the exposure levels to these chemicals and the risk management of them.

I find it interesting that Artline felt pens have "Xylene Free" printed on them.

Is that because of some requirement to a perceived risk, or to tell those that would sniff them for a high that it is not worth the effort?

Cheers,

[rob love]

MLU threads wander.......it's how we learn.

I looked up the health effects of xylene, since I do tend to use a fair bit of it between painting and cleanup. It does not collect in the body, and while over-exposure can be bad (so can too much chocolate) normal exposures will dissipate.

I can't say the same for MEKA, which I consider very bad. The carb cleaner at work has MEKA as an ingredient. Cleans things up very well.....too well.

[Bob Carriere]

I worked briefly in a sheet metal shop and they were using MEK..... not for long...
according to safety manuals there are no barriers that one can wear to prevent the MEK from migrating into your skin.... all work rubber, nytril, latex gloves have a certain degree of porosity and the MEK goes through them.....in fact it is recommended NOT to wear protective gloves as it will keep the chemical in skin contact longer than bare hands were the MEK will evaporate faster.

The gun wash I buy is handled accordingly....and by the way it will desolve 3/4 inch of hard varnish deposit in old CMP tanks.

My preference for diluting OD flat paint is high test gasoline with no alcohol in it.

We wander but it is all paint related.

Cheers

[chris vickery]

Never used POR, seems a little expensive and troublesome to me.
A good epoxy primer is relatively inexpensive, sticks well to anything and doesn't involve any magic tricks, potions or the like to work, use or save for future use. Sandblast, wipe down with metal prep and spray, job done.
It's all I use and at the end of the day will outlive anything I will ever put back together. It's also superior to the old school red oxide primer of yesteryear.
BTW, how long was that old enamel mil-spec paint stuck on there before it was blasted off a restoration project???