U.S. Willys M-38A1 in Canadian Service?

[Clint Tauber]

Originally Posted by Frank v R

the Toledo vehicles do pop up , I also owned one of these, ex First Hussars CO's vehicle, there has been no CFR list found as yet of the M-38's and M-38A1's , how or when the CF aquirred these is still a very big mystery , bottom line is they are Canadian and we did have them,

Indeed, this one is all Canadian other than the Willys plates. RCEME rebuild tags on some parts, headlight guards, security chain, convoy light, and signal lights. I recall seeing a photo taken shortly after the Korean War, in the DMZ I think, with Canadians using US M-38A1's. The ones used in Egypt also appear to be US jeeps. Perhaps the Toledo ones were used there, and were brought to Canada at some point?

Also, mine has no sign of having a machine gun mount, but there were enough links in the nooks and crannies that it must have had a machine gun mounted somehow. Any ideas? Some sort of temporary mount?

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by Clint Tauber

Also, mine has no sign of having a machine gun mount, but there were enough links in the nooks and crannies that it must have had a machine gun mounted somehow. Any ideas? Some sort of temporary mount?

The links are most likely from something like a C6 GPMG or some other MG that was carried by the infantry soldiers of the day. I believe the C6 has been in service since the late 70's in Canada, so it was probably an earlier similar gun.

[rob love]

C-6 (FN-MAG) did not enter service with Canada until the introduction of the Leopard in 1978. Other than the Leopards, there were no C6 GPMGs until they replaced the C5A1 (C1) in the 90s.

Prior to that (starting in the late 50s) it was the M1919A4 Browning, which in thelate 60 was converted to 7.62mm and given the designation C1 GPMG. In the late 70s, early 80s they had an upgrade which was going to require the A1 suffix on the model number. Because it could have led to confusion with the C1A1 FN rifle, the designation for the upgraded GPMG became C5A1. Note there was never a gun marked simply C5, although the RCMP's FRT tables have an entry for such a gun (they don't show a photo though since the gun never existed) and as well the little plastic user manual calls it the C5 machine gun.

There are a number of upgrades which will be incorporated into a new version of the C6 machine gun, making them the C6A1. Expected in 2017 (Liberals permitting), new guns will be purchased rendering the old ones surplus.

Sorry if I have wandered a little from the Jeeps in question.

The links could well have been from a C1 GPMG with bipod sandbagged onto the hood. They could also be some of the earlier 30-06 links as used on the original M1919A4. As well, there were some of the M31C pedestals in Canadian service, although there would be sings of it being mounted on the back floor of the Jeep.

[Clint Tauber]

The links appear to be from the 1919A4

[Frank v R]

as far as the GPMG mount goes almost all of the 53 A1's were out before they were widely used , my Willys did have the mount, there were M31C mounts in the system to the end of the M-38A1's service life in the late 80's, and they did mount those on both the 52's and 53's, as far as UN vehicles goes a great number were US supplied , friends that did tours in the Golan and Sinai had photos showing US M-151A1, M-37, M-715, M-35, etc,

[Eric B]

The first batch of M381's were bought from the US and shipped to Korea to replace the WW2 era jeeps.

We left the WW2 era vehicles there as well as the non compatible M series vehicles (M37, M211 etc) we bought directly from the US, to what was being built in Canada.

We did ship back the M38A1's and for some unknown reason removed the heaters before shipping.

So if you have a Canadian 1952/53 US built M38A1 then it was used in Korea.

More info can be found in "Canadian Vehicles in Korea" written by Don Dingwall and published by Service Publications.

We did not use the M38's in Korea, those were shipped to Germany.

Thanks
Eric

[Clint Tauber]

Originally Posted by Eric B

The first batch of M381's were bought from the US and shipped to Korea to replace the WW2 era jeeps.

We left the WW2 era vehicles there as well as the non compatible M series vehicles (M37, M211 etc) we bought directly from the US, to what was being built in Canada.

We did ship back the M38A1's and for some unknown reason removed the heaters before shipping.

So if you have a Canadian 1952/53 US built M38A1 then it was used in Korea.

More info can be found in "Canadian Vehicles in Korea" written by Don Dingwall and published by Service Publications.

We did not use the M38's in Korea, those were shipped to Germany.

Thanks
Eric

Cool, that makes sense too, as mine had the distribution box etc. but the previous owner had to buy the heater for it. I wonder why they removed the heaters???