Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Lionel Gee

So far as I can tell the KG3 was a prewar colour . The specification for it in the Archive is a 1940 spec ( from memory I don't have it in front of me) It was specified for all tin hats made in Australia throughout the war.

I understand it was from a British specification but I have to send some data to Mike Starmers to confirm that. I have a spectrographic sample of the only known chip , and it is a chip indeed measuring around 3/8" square, that i will have made up and sent of to Britain for comparison.

KG #3 was not used on Vehicles by the Australian Army according to the documentary and photographic evidence that exists until December of 1943. Army orders and paint availability indicate Deep bronze green and British desert yellow (light stone) were used until the Australian "Berger" colour set was adopted.

The standard Khaki was KGJ ( colour J in the colour set.)

To Your vehicle: I am still gathering information for 1939 to June/July 1941 to nail down definitely the shades used. If your vehicle was made after June/July I think the KGJ would have been used.

KG1 and 2 were never used by the Australian Army and I have never seen samples of those colours. They may have some relationship to the development of the Breger colours but there is no evidence of this in the documents.

Prior to June July I have little to go on. The photographs suggest , as much as black and white photographs can , that deep bronze green was used. The only artifacts I have direct knowledge of are the two pounder held in the AWM and the Vickers MkVI B I once owned. They were both a very deep green but substantially different to the deep bronze green post war ( as used on ferrets Cents and Saladin etc )

That Australian 1939/1941 green seem somewhat different to Mike S sample chip.

Mike Cecil has informed me that some production pre 1942 was done in "desert yellow" This is still in the research to be done envelope. If that is so then just what shade was used will be interesting as Australia was developing its own "desert yellow" shade that was no where as "yellow" as the British shade'

[Mrs Vampire]

The yellowish colour your vehicle has faded to is typical of all the "greens" used in Australia.

No lead pigments were use din Australian MV paints during WWII. The source of the earth pigments seems to say the Yellow pigment used is the most persistent in any of the KG colours.

Your best bet is some examination including selected rub backs covered earlier in this thread . I would be happy to look at any photos you would like to put up and venture an opinion.

Areas least subjected to weathering are the best locations to try.chasis rails , behind panels and doors etc etc...

[Mike Cecil]

"Mike Cecil has informed me that some production pre 1942 was done in "desert yellow" This is still in the research to be done envelope. If that is so then just what shade was used will be interesting as Australia was developing its own "desert yellow" shade that was no where as "yellow" as the British shade'

It was called Light Stone or Portland Stone. Portland Stone in particular was a very 'washed out' colour, hardly yellow at all.

Vehicles allocated to the AIF in 1940-41 by contract were supposed to be supplied from the contractor's works in this colour, and those destined for the AMF were supposed to be finished in green (ahh, I hear you say .... but which green? The pre-war/peacetime green, or KG3????)

Mike

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

"Mike Cecil has informed me that some production pre 1942 was done in "desert yellow" This is still in the research to be done envelope. If that is so then just what shade was used will be interesting as Australia was developing its own "desert yellow" shade that was no where as "yellow" as the British shade'

It was called Light Stone or Portland Stone. Portland Stone in particular was a very 'washed out' colour, hardly yellow at all.

Vehicles allocated to the AIF in 1940-41 by contract were supposed to be supplied from the contractor's works in this colour, and those destined for the AMF were supposed to be finished in green (ahh, I hear you say .... but which green? The pre-war/peacetime green, or KG3????)

Mike

Hello Mike,

Not green Mike - Khaki and from Dulux (DLX ?) as well!

As per the plate on the firewall Colour DLX KHAKI
Batch No: -
Date: KO

Who needs a batch number anyway!

Not sure what the "KO" represents as a date?

"Khaki" what else would you need to know?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mike K]

This is new to me

http://milepegsnt.com/site/vehicle-camouflage-markings/

[Mike Cecil]

so who is 'he'?

Mike

[Mrs Vampire]

I have had a chance to do some close inspection on Stuart M3 Hybrid .

I had thought the Vehicle was , on first brush< from the NT force but on closer inspection I see it is third Armoured.

It is clearly painted Khaki Green J and Light Brown P.

Given that the colours on my tank could be interpreted either way but seem more brownish than yellow I not think my earlier certainty on Light Stone was mistaken.

The colours on this Hybrids rear doors are very very well preserved.

I Know the vehicle was made in Feb of 1942 and think it was delivered in time for the exercises out near Narabri or very shortly after.

I have been able to see the remnants of the formation sign but have not yet found evidence of the unit number but suppose it would be the 13th .

I will do some test panels and compare the contrast . I am now firmly on the side of KGJ and LBP for third armoured.

The evidence is also that the lower parts of the vehicle were either not repainted from the imported colour od Bronze green or the paint that was on them has washed off...again the paint is very clear and in good condition

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

The yellowish colour your vehicle has faded to is typical of all the "greens" used in Australia.

No lead pigments were use din Australian MV paints during WWII. The source of the earth pigments seems to say the Yellow pigment used is the most persistent in any of the KG colours.

Your best bet is some examination including selected rub backs covered earlier in this thread . I would be happy to look at any photos you would like to put up and venture an opinion.

Areas least subjected to weathering are the best locations to try.chasis rails , behind panels and doors etc etc...

Hello Gina,

Thank you for your replies and for all the information. Much appreciated. How far away is your book from be released?

Kind Regards
Lionel