Bobcat

[Bob Phillips]

So while this post has been revived and there are so many well informed members contributing let me ask a question..following the success of Canadian industries in WW2 in successfully building all manner of vehicles there seems to have been a mindset in our 1950s military that we could/should be developing a new generation of vehicles.
The armored snowmobile/penguin led to the Mudcat, the Beaver and the Wapiti. At least the Mudcat & Beaver were deemed useful vehicles, but tghey apppear to have quickly died in infancy. In my research it seems there was a hope to develop export markets for some of these vehicles as well as use them in our northlands. Was this just a deluded dream? The monies expended were huge ( though apparently much less than comparable US developed vehicles)
the Wapiti program beginning 1949 and cancelled 1954 after 3 prototypes built cost ( as previously reported ) $1.25 million 1952 dollars. The engines alone were $8000 each!! The Wapiti was reportedly cancelled as it was too big to be air transported- which seems odd since the later Bobcat was to be airportable in a 105mm gun version.
This was also the era of the Avro Arrow etc etc Anyone like to speculate on why there was so much money available for R&D when so much of that technology went right down the drain??

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Bob Phillips

The Wapiti was reportedly cancelled as it was too big to be air transported- which seems odd since the later Bobcat was to be airportable in a 105mm gun version.

Perhaps the answer is one word: Hercules. US production started in 1956 and introduced to the RCAF in 1960.

I mentioned early in this thread that I talked with the EME Col Commandant about the Bobcat. He was part of the project towards the end, and pulled the plug on the project. Apparently they were rife with problems. Personally, I'm glad we ended up with the M113 family of vehicles, some of which are still serving today after 50 years of service. I think a limited production of the Bobcat, had it been brought to fruition, would have just left us with an orphan as the US vehicle would have dominated the market in the free world.

We can take some satisfaction in the LAV series of vehicles, although the lineage goes back to Europe. I think that series have now become the standard in the free world.

[Bob Phillips]

Good point Rob,
so do I conclude that Canadas military brass had an overly high opinion of their capability following the success of Canadian industrial production in WW2?
No one could argue with the success of the M113..but the implication of all this is that the Canadian taxpayer got royally screwed by poor decision making in the 1950s.
Second, was there a realistic hope for Canadian designed vehicles on a world market if they had been more readily produced and marketed ( esp types like the Mudcat & Beaver rather than more obscure design such as Bobcat APCs) ?
The M series trucks we built in the 1950s were all of US design, anyone know if other Canadian options were considered?

[Bob Phillips]

Sorry- Charlie F. has revived the Wapiti thread where I quote engines at $6000 each not $8000. However in 1950s dollars how many houses could you buy with $6000- I am guessing maybe 2 average homes? Still very expensive

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Bob Phillips

Good point Rob,
so do I conclude that Canadas military brass had an overly high opinion of their capability following the success of Canadian industrial production in WW2?
No one could argue with the success of the M113..but the implication of all this is that the Canadian taxpayer got royally screwed by poor decision making in the 1950s.

I don't know about royally screwed and poor decision making. For every winner there has to be some losers.....taking on the US with it's influence, industrial capability, design capability, influence, and influence is a tough battle. Since our domestic needs are so small, the production of a Canadian designed vehicle would only be a few thousand for us, and then possible foreign sales. For a US vehicle, their domestic needs would result in a much lower cost, and then it would be on the world market with a product that would be priced far below what we could offer.

The numbers would never be in our favor.

[Colin Alford]

About 20 seconds of Bobcat footage can be found in this video on YouTube starting at the 57 second mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrNv0QOqPf8