Lynx II, hull # 4225

[Lynn Eades]

Rick it worked like this (back in the day) I hope this helps. If you already know, It may help someone else.
Henry Ford had a number for each basic item.
For example;
A block is a 6010 this covers all blocks cars trucks tractors, 4,6, and 8 cyl etc.incl. America, Canada , England etc.

To get down to a particular defined model, you take the number that you have located on the exploded engine picture and you now hunt for it in the written section. There you will find that basic number (6010) but it will have various prefixes and maybe, suffixes with that number.
For example: (Andrew's supplied number) C99A-6010
The Ford of Canada 1941 to 1947 parts book(post war?) only supplies a C59A 6010 S block as a service part.
The 48 to 51 truck parts book lists a C69A-6010-S for the 48 engines (last with center water outlets) while my parts book for the war time CMP rear engined chassis (3 models) list a C19A-6010 S block.

So if you follow that you will now understand that Crankshaft pulley 6312 without the prefix, refers equally to an English built 4 cylinder Consul engine pulley.

Rick, you have mentioned the single sheave water pumps. Is this what is needed to fix this alignment problem? Is the belt centerline different from the two C.L's on the double sheave pumps
This book covers the CO11QR, C191QR, and C291QR. All these engines use single sheave water pumps. Does the Lynx use the same build motor?

[Mike Cecil]

Following on from Lynn's post, the basic c/shaft pulley number is, as he and Rick said, '6312' which is applicable to any c/shaft pulley - GP-6312 is for the Ford GP, GPW-6312 is for the jeep, 81T-6312, 91A-6312 and 21A-6312 for various configurations of V8. The Lynx workshop manual diagrams just provide the basic item number, not the essential prefix: you would need a Lynx parts list for that.

Peter, I note the manual shows a single belt pulley configuration for the Lynx Mk3 and 3*, rather than the twin belt pulley configuration common on CMP trucks. So I'm surmising that you have gathered the various parts from other places, ie not originally taken off your Lynx during restoration. (I have not followed your forum posts closely: you may have explained that previously).

I'm suggesting, with the variety of (1) water pump pulleys (2) generator front plates (3) generator pulleys and (4) crankshaft pulleys that were available for V8s in various applications, that that may be the source of your misalignment - a mix of items from different applications. The 1941 master parts list shows that there were 13 different generator pulleys, either twin or single pulley, produced between 1928 and 1940, varying in size from 3.58 inch diameter to 5.18 inch diameter, and seven different generator front plates, which, combined, gave 20 different combinations of generators. The same applies to crankshafts, crankshaft pulleys and so on: there are multiples listed up to end 1941, so the number probably only increased after that.

To overcome the problem, a set of matching items would need to be located. Easy to say, of course, but an intact 'junker' V8 may provide you with such a matching set.

Mike

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Following on from Lynn's post, the basic c/shaft pulley number is, as he and Rick said, '6312' which is applicable to any c/shaft pulley - GP-6312 is for the Ford GP, GPW-6312 is for the jeep, 81T-6312, 91A-6312 and 21A-6312 for various configurations of V8. The Lynx workshop manual diagrams just provide the basic item number, not the essential prefix: you would need a Lynx parts list for that. Mike

Mike The numbers I quoted came straight out of this book.



I didn't think it was refined enough but it is all that I have.

Regards Rick.

[Andrew Rowe]

Lynx used the single crankshaft pulley to serial #3000 and after that went to the double crankshaft pulley. I think the fan extension on the single pulley was used in some 1941 trucks as well , so was a common part that was adapted , not so sure about the double pulley , I think that was specific to the Mk2 Lynx .Cheers Andrew

[Lynn Eades]

Is anyone sitting on an engine build spec that covers the Lynx?

[Peter Duggan]

Guys,

I continue to be amazed at the level of knowledge and willingness to share with MLU members.

I'm now convinced that the issue rests with the water pumps. The parts manual for the Lynx calls for C29SR 8505 and 8506 for the pump housings. My LH pump housing has the number 79 8505.

I think the most unobtrusive way of correcting the alignment is to add a 5/8" spacer to the inside of the pulleys themselves. I will confer with my local machinist as to the practicality of this idea. Any suggestions or comments would be welcome.

I have yet to find any differences between the engine blocks themselves.

Peter

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by Peter Duggan

.....I'm now convinced that the issue rests with the water pumps......I think the most unobtrusive way of correcting the alignment is to add a 5/8" spacer to the inside of the pulleys themselves......
Peter

The pulleys are just pressed onto the shafts, you just need the correct pulleys. T16 ones would be very close if they are not the exact ones you need. There would be little scope for fitting spacers as the pulleys are not pressed on untill they hit a sholder but untill they are flush with the outer end off the shaft. This means that you have some latitude to use the wrong pulley by not pushing it all the way on but you can not press it more than intended because it will hit the end of the pump housing.

David

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Rick,

I have only a workshop manual and stowage diagram for the Lynx 3 & 3*, so I'm simply amazed that the Lynx parts list you have does not contain the prefix and/or suffix for each part listed in the parts tables - every Ford parts list I have, from the GP to Master Parts Lists of various dates, lists the full spec in the tables (but not on the diagrams), hence my assumption that the Lynx list would be the same.

Just goes to show there is always something new to learn!

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Peter,

79-8505 is listed as a 'Housing Water Pump, Right Hand', for the V8 fitted to a 1.5 ton COE chassis with cab over engine cab. The 1944 master parts List shows that this is the part's only application for vehicles supplied to US Forces (it may have other applications). 79-8506 is the 'Housing, Water Pump, Left Hand' for the same application.

The pulley that was fitted to those pumps was the 79-8509B. Again, that was that pulley's only application.

You probably have one of the few V8 water pump housings that was shorter in depth than the usual - maybe look at a couple of pumps from a CMP and see if they are a deeper casting and will line up OK.

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Going back,
I have looked and there does not seem to be room to manoeuvre on the bottom pulley.
The crank dimensions have generally been (in relation to this problem) the same since 1939
The bottom gear (6306) has had a 48 prefix across all models (it seems) of all relevant Ford V8s up until the reverse cut gear of the 8BA, (in the fifties)
So, to me it's like this:
Front of crank, the gear goes on, the slinger goes on, timing cover on,the pulley slides home.
There's not much you can get wrong in that.(is there?)

I'd like to know why the sheaves of the Lynx are set out further than a std pulley. Of course there will be a reason, but I can't figure it out.
I have a motor with the same timing cover. It has a std two sheave pulley on it.
Is it about the belts clearing that Dizzy box?

Anyhow it seems the answer lies in the pulleys and pumps as deduced.

To add to Mike's effort, the 78C number prefix refers to the bush type (single sheave) pumps and the 79C, refers to the twin sheave bearing pump housings.
For H.Ford to come up with a different part number (C29SR- 8505 and 8506) means those housings were special. Theat may not mean that they wont fit, It might be say, just a better water flow (if you are lucky )
Maybe David H. has hit on the answer? ... and it can be fixed with T16 pulleys? (remember though the part that changed was the housing)

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Hi Rick,

I have only a workshop manual and stowage diagram for the Lynx 3 & 3*, so I'm simply amazed that the Lynx parts list you have does not contain the prefix and/or suffix for each part listed in the parts tables - every Ford parts list I have, from the GP to Master Parts Lists of various dates, lists the full spec in the tables (but not on the diagrams), hence my assumption that the Lynx list would be the same.

Just goes to show there is always something new to learn!

Mike

Well you will have to unlearn that fact Mike, as I only looked at the diagram and not the numbers page. The prefix is 78C before the diagram part number. So 78C 8509 for the pully and 78C 8504 for the LHS and 78C 8503 for the RHS pump.



Is the stowage diagram a separate folded sheet, Mike? If so is there a chance of a copy, please. I do have a couple of pages S16 and S17 which show where things go but not a separate sheet.

Regards Rick.

[Mike Cecil]

OK: now it makes sense.

The stowage diagram is a single large sheet: much too big for my little scanner, though.

Mike

[Andrew Rowe]

Back a few years ago you could buy the double roller bearing, complete with shaft, that was longer than the standard V8 water pump bearing from the local bearing shop. To make it work for the standard set-up you just trimmed it down. So maybe you get a couple of these and put your spacer in and put pulley on. It was something like what you mentioned , that had to be trimmed off if I remember rightly, Cheers Andrew.

[Peter Duggan]

Guys,
I went to a local machinist, Tom Wiltse, who has bailed me out on previous occasions. My request was to weld a spacer on the inside of the pulley. He wasn't keen about the idea and proposed machining the pulley sheaves from the inside for half it's width, then machining a two step spacer to the right length and press it into place.
Worked like a charm. The change isn't even visible, and the pulley alignment is spot on. Now to move onto the next challenge.

Peter

[Mike Cecil]

Nice solution, Peter: neat job, no delay finding alternative parts.

Well done.

Mike

[super dave]

Nice job on the pulley mod

[Peter Duggan]

Guys,

Just made a major milestone, the Lynx now has an engine. Great feeling to finally have an engine back in. It was back on the 4th of April 14 that I pulled the original 239.
Adam McConnell, our local mechanic, came to make sure that it went in pointed the right way. Slipped into place without a whimper.
Feels as if I've finally turned the corner with the restoration. Dave Good also ran up the engine and when I figure out how to do it I will post his video of the engine run. It certainly sounded sweet.
It's been quite an enjoyable task with lots more in the way of challenges and rewards.

Peter

[Alex van de Wetering]

Well done Peter! Congratulations on the "marriage" of the engine and hull/chassis.

Please keep the updates coming.

Alex

[Mike Cecil]

Rick, and Peter,

The stowage and lubrication diagrams (one of each) are about 24 x 36 inches each in size and come from the pockets at each end of the Lynx maintenance manual. The local Staples store can copy that size. Cost is $6USD each.

If folded as per original, the postage to Australia (large envelope - standard mail not trackable) would be about $10USD. Have not checked re postage cost to Canada. Rolled would be more expensive and requires the cost of a postage tube as well.

If either or both of you wish to proceed (or anyone else for that matter), PM or email or contact me via the contact page on my website at www.michaelkcecil.com

Mike

[Peter Duggan]

Mike,

Thanks for the generous offer. PM to follow.

Peter

[charlie fitton]

Originally Posted by Peter Duggan

Mike,

Thanks for the generous offer. PM to follow.

Peter

I'dtake a set too, send it with Peters'...

[chris vickery]

Just a thought, PDF file on a thumb drive or a CD is pretty inexpensive to make and send and have repro'd on the receiving end...
I just did this with a couple M274 Mule manuals which I had scanned.

[Mike Cecil]

Finding a scanner that will take a 33 x 22 sheet is the problem: I found a copier locally, hence the offer to copy & send.

Note: these are Lynx Mk3/Mk3* diagrams, not Lynx Mk2.

Mike

[James Gosling]

Hi Mike,

I would be interested in a set as well, to the UK.

Let me know the costs?

Thanks James

[jdmcm]

Outstanding work Peter!

[Mike Cecil]

For those asking for copies, please note that the copies that can be done at Staples are on standard 80 gsm white paper, whereas the originals are a cream paper of much greater weight – closer to 120 gsm.

If you are happy with that and wish to proceed, please send me a PM with your email and snail mail addresses, and I can let everyone know the total cost to each with postage.

Thanks

Mike

[Peter Duggan]

Guys,

Slowly coming together. Nice to compare with when I first opened up the engine compartment.

Peter

[Peter Duggan]

Guys,

I'm on the search for pictures of Lynx's in service, preferably during WW 11. Rick, Marco and many others have posted pictures that are new to me, but I'm still looking for more. Patrick Johnson's great book "Push On", yielded some new to me, Lynx pictures.

In an effort to prime the pump, here are some poor quality pictures that I found while trawling the web.

Peter

[Alex van de Wetering]

Peter,

You are doing a lovely job on the Lynx!

Attached are a few period pictures taken in the Netherlands.
These two are taken in, or around, Leeuwarden. Source: https://historischcentrumleeuwarden.nl/

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

And 4 taken in or around Amsterdam
source: https://www.nederlandsfotomuseum.nl/

Alex