Armoured Snowmobile manual

[Bob Phillips]

Great pictures Ed !
Looks like I may be wrong about plywood crew covers...In " Design Record", vol 8 (Army Engineering Design Branch) it states " To minimize crew exposure due to the open top hull, two man-hole type flat plywood covers were installed over the drivers and observers seats. The front cover was hinged to the body of the vehicle so that they could be folded out of the way when not in use. Although of simple construction and easy to operate, it was found that the crews movements were somewhat hampered when the covers were in the closed position" . I don't know enough about military protocol to know if this was recognition after the fact or whether the plywood top was officially sanctioned and promoted.
Most of the 410 built were converted to close bodied machines. This was done in Ottawa at Ottawa Car and Foundry ( think that correct) and I have a couple of unpublished photos of the new machines with their numbers on the assembly lines. B.P

[Bob Phillips]

So an update- my memory fails again- I have checked my photos-
the armoured snowmobiles converted by Ottawa Car and Aircraft probably only number 11 or so.They are the three front window version used in the north in Operation Muskox. My photos show as many as 6 vehicles lined up on the factory floor being converted to closed cab style. One view shows 2 machines in a front 3/4 view and written on the fender in what looks like grease pencil/marker are the number 10 and on a second 8 and the third maybe 1 or 11. One photo of a completed vehicle has the number 76-749 stenciled on the front fender. One of the photos has written on the back..." Ottawa 1946, Musk-ox Experimental vehicles for arctic, Ottawa Car and Aircraft" These photos came from the estate of my Father in Law who was employed there for a few years after the war. By the way we are running two parallel threads here, maybe Hanno can merge them together?? BP

[David Dunlop]

Following on Bob's idea, it would make sense if Hanno could pool all Armoured Snowmobile and related Pengiun threads together considering the strong relationship between the two vehicles.

Based on your information, Bob, we can assume for the time being that of the original 11 Armoured Snowmobiles in the Canadian inventory, most or all were converted to Penguins in 1946 by Ottawa Car and Aircraft. Second, assuming none of these ever went back to a shop for a major change/rebuild, they could be unique and readily identifiable by data plates bearing the OC&A identification, and most if not all lower hull assemblies would show some sign of being cut down original armour plate.

If Canadian Arsenals then took on building more Penguins, two possibilities exist: more original Armoured Snowmobiles were reaquired and brought back to Canada for modification, and their lower hulls will also be cut down armour, but they will have CAL data plates, or CAL took original plans, modified the lower hull design and built essentially brand new vehicles from regular steel plate.

I wonder if any of the surviving Armoured Snowmobile manuals might indicate if hull numbers were ever stamped anywhere on the body of the vehicle itself, in a location that might have survived the conversion process? If so, Penguin owners could check their vehicles for surviving numbers and see if and how they might match up on the OC&A or CAL data plates.

David

[Bob Phillips]

Just a couple of things;
415 machines originally ordered, 410 built most (400?) for export.
Built by Farand and Delorme, Montreal.
Surviving mk 2 or 3 versions (as per yellow example on other thread) have an obvious bit of lower front armour. You can see it on the first of Eds pictures and again on the yellow machine below the front cab. The early MK1 ? version built in 1946/Ottawa does NOT have the obvious armour plate sticking down below the front cab.It has been removed and replaced with a bumber type crosss bar and front fender . This suggests that the few surviving Mk2/3 versions are not from the 11 conversions done in Montreal, but from some other source.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Phillips

In " Design Record", vol 8 (Army Engineering Design Branch) it states " To minimize crew exposure due to the open top hull, two man-hole type flat plywood covers were installed over the drivers and observers seats. The front cover was hinged to the body of the vehicle so that they could be folded out of the way when not in use. Although of simple construction and easy to operate, it was found that the crews movements were somewhat hampered when the covers were in the closed position" . I don't know enough about military protocol to know if this was recognition after the fact or whether the plywood top was officially sanctioned and promoted.

Looks you are correct on the plywood, Bob. These pictures show the Kubinka survivor under restoration, showing the quite extensive use of wood. "Woody snowmobile"?!!

IMG_8699.jpg

Pictures courtesy of Yuri Pasholok: http://yuripasholok.livejournal.com/8710201.html

IMG_8700.jpg

PS: will merge threads later

[David Dunlop]

Great photos, Hanno. When you look back at Ed's photo post #6, you can see the angled wood/steel seam on top of the right front fender.

These things are just getting more and more interesting!

David