Info needed: 1967 M38A1 Lubrication?

[Les Kovacs]

Wow....thanks for all the input Rob and Wayne. Ok....one thing left out in your reply Rob and that are the differentials but I am assuming that you bundled them with the "gear boxes". Wow...a load of knowledge!

Ok, some history....my 67' CDN2 apparently came from CFB Petawawa....a retired military mechanic (John Power) restored it from 2009 to 2011(I have a ton of pictures from him)...he sold it to a OPP cop in Fort Erie in 2015 and I just purchased it last weekend....the OPP cop only put on 600 miles (1000k) in the two years he owned it. So, I am assuming that Mr. Power greased the axles on assembly as per the pictures it was a frame off restoration.
I plan on doing all of the lubing aside from the kingpin, front & rear axles. Do know of anyone in the Barrie area that may have knowledge and experience of working on jeeps aside from Willy's Acres of whom I have major issues with?

Thanks for the great advice.

les

[rob love]

Differentials, transmission, transfer case are all 80W90 hypoid, preferably GL3 but that is now hard to find. It is said that the GL4 is hard on the brass parts, such as the synchros in the transmission on 2 and 3 gear. Some of the synthetics are rated GL3 such as royal purple, but you may find the synthetics tend to leak a little more.

I see on your other thread some of the parts you are looking for. Hard to believe that it had a frame up restoration but needs

pitman arm, draglink, bellcrank (and hardware), thermostat (which one?) as well as parts for the steering box

I would suggest you check your kingpins.

Easy way to check them is you jack the truck up, remove the wheels, and disconnect the knuckle from the tie rod. Then turn the knuckle thru it's ranges and if it feels rough, then you need the bearings.

If your Jeep has the incredible uncontrollable wobble, it is often a combination of wear in all of the steering system, kingpin bearings included.

The kingpin bearing and cone are pn 11590/11520. If you buy them up here they will easily run you $30 each. Off ebay you should be able to get them for about $10 each. http://www.ebay.com/itm/11590-11520-...sAAOSwstxVUfDD

[Les Kovacs]

Rob....

I am guessing that the safety check will identify any front end issues but I have had the steering wheel turned back & forth by my wife and I see a lot of play in the parts mentioned so yes the full extent of the restoration is dubious. Also, at speed the jeep is not bad but hitting a bump makes the wheels wobble for a split second only. Thanks for the kingpin bearing notice!

Another issue bothers me....rad fluid pukes out of the overflow tube (1/3 to 1/2 cup) when I run it longer than 15-20min and somewhat uphill...although the temp gauge never gets past 120-140 F.....that is why I ask you which thermostat to buy 160 or 180 degrees....I am thinking that it may be partially stuck.

The good stuff....starts quickly, runs smooth with no noises, shift well with well defined gates, straight rust free (MD Juan) tub, frame, floor etc. No oil in antifreeze and no beige milky stuff in oil. Front rear axle more or less leak free, transmission & transfer (not sure which one) leaks about 1/2 teaspoon per drive....may be just drain plug?

Please let me know if time permits your idea as to rad puking and what temp thermostat to buy.

Cheers,

les

[rob love]

If the temp is not overheating, then there is no problem with your thermostat. Most likely it is one of two things. The most likely is that you are simply overfilling the radiator. Unlike modern vehicles, there is no radiator overflow. So if you have overfilled the rad, as it expands, there will be some overflow. It should find it's own level, which will be just above the core of the radiator.

The other is that you could have the beginning of a head gasket leak. Try this: Open and close the rad cap (engine cold) so there is zero pressure in the radiator. Start the jeep cold and run it for 30 seconds to a minute. Shut it off and open the rad cap. If there is pressure there, then you need the engine gasket replaced. You will also observe that the coolant will turn a muddy brown instead of it's usual bright green. Don't bother with the gasket sealing gimmicks....replace the gasket. It only takes a couple hours and you will be good for another 30 years. I had to recently do this on the parade Jeep here in Shilo. Only 2300 original miles, but the coolant got acidic over the years and the gasket failed along with some of the aluminum heater hose fittings.

Wrt what thermostat to use if you did need one, if you are going to use your Jeep in the cooler months and want your heater, then go with a 180. Otherwise, a 160 is fine. Note that these temps are the closing temps of the thermostat. Some of the lesser brands of thermostat will not open until 240, which is fine for modern automobiles with 15 pound pressure systems, but is too high for the 7 lb system of a Jeep. In the old days, a Cdn tire thermostat would give me grief while a Ford motorcraft thermostat worked just fine. In all honesty, I have not replaced a thermostat in a lot of years, so you may be fine with a NAPA or Cdn tire thermostat these days. The thermostat is common to Ford and Dodges from the last 60 years so is easy enough to find.

Back to your steering: The drag link is adjustable, so unless you know you need the pitman arm because the ball has been worn, then you can just remove the cotter pins on each end of the drag link, and tighten up the sockets a bit. Not enough to bind, but enough to remove the play. For the bellcrank, you just need two torrington B188 bearings, and can flip the sleeve over to run the bearings on fresh surfaces.

The safety check may not catch the kingpin bearings. In this modern age of sealed disposable balljoints, most mechanics will not look for the worn bearings of the kingpins. They certainly would not be doing the test I indicated of removing the tires and tie rods, and turning the knuckles.

[Les Kovacs]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for all the valuable info/tidbits....firstly, yes, the rad still pukes fluid but its still well above the core. I have run the engine for about 30kms since I bought it a few days ago and there is still no oil droplets in the rad fluid or malted milk fluid around the inside of the oil filler or on the dip stick. The temp gauge always reads about 120-140 and no more....is this normal?....or do you think its busted? I will test as per your suggestion by running for 1 min and then cracking open the rad cap and looking for pressure.

As per the drag link....I did notice that the ends have cross marks as if they can be adjusted. I Also noticed that the drag link has a repair kit on it already. It steers OK but again, if I hit a pothole at about 20-30 kms the steering wheel shakes for a split second then settles down.

Canadian tire has only 80-90 gear oil al GL4 or 5..cannot find GL 3....had to top up the front & rear diffs as they were well below filler lip. Have not look at the trans or transfer yet but they are leaking....hopefully its only at the drain plugs. Oil pan gasket leaked....I put a socket to it....all the bolts were only finger tight....tightened to about 10-20 ft. lbs....appears to have stopped leak.

I sincerely thank you for all the info.....if you do not mind, I would love to use you as a resource while trying to make a reliable runner out of the jeep.

PS...If Shilo is the armpit of the world...then Bangui (Central African Republic) is the toilet of the world.

Regards,

les

[rob love]

The parade Jeep I worked on did not have any water in the oil. Remember that you have 120 psi in a cylinder, and only 7 pounds in a radiator, so if the head gasket leak is marginal, it may not show in the oil.

Yes, GL3 is hard to find. But it is out there.

Always happy to share my opinions, even when they are not asked for.

[David Herbert]

Any gear oil with 'EP' in its designation, which includes GL4 &5 is rather more than 'hard on yellow metal' components. The EP additives get into the molecular structure of the surface of the component and prizes it apart on a microscopic level. A bit like ivy growing on a stone wall pulls the mortar out and eventually the wall crumbles. The result of this is that any wearing surface falls apart VERY quickly. I have seen 1mm wear in 1 hour of use on a not terribly loaded plain bronze bearing because of this. This is a serious problem if you get it wrong !

There are plenty of non-automotive uses for non EP gear oils (such as worm reduction gearboxes on electric motors on industrial machinery) so cast your net a bit wider than the local auto parts outlet. What you need is out there.

With regard to the viscosity of engine oil, check out the owners manual of your modern car, which I suggest should have more specific needs than a 50 year old MV. You will see that there is a huge range of acceptable grades of oil for a particular climate (more so in the UK than the more extreme summer/winter variation in Canada) so within limits you do have some latitude. Synthetic oil is much more resistant to breakdown than mineral oils but that is not a great advantage to MVs as you probably are not trying to get 16000miles between oil changes (I hope).

David

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by rob love

...

... It only takes a couple hours and you will be good for another 30 years. I had to recently do this on the parade Jeep here in Shilo. Only 2300 original miles, but the coolant got acidic over the years and the gasket failed along with some of the aluminum heater hose fittings. ...

...

Apparently there is another 1953 1/4-ton ceremonial Jeep in 25 CFSD Longue Pointe. Out of curiosity, what is the ERN and CFR of Shilo's? It would be interesting to see whether there are any others in the system.

[rob love]

It is held as an artifact rather than a CFR'd piece of equipment. ERN forany CDN3 will be the same, it is the ECC that will be different. There was a specific ECC for the ceremonial/VIP trucks.

Les: Drain your rad so you are just slightly above the rad core, then take it for a drive and see if it is puking a/f. You may have nothing more than a overfilled radiator.

[Les Kovacs]

Thanks to all for your valuable input!

1. To Rob....the jeep passed inspection this AM and I got plated! It was a real crock....they never even took any wheels off to check for brake shoe wear!

2. I will have the front wheel balanced next week.

3. To Rob.....I tried the rad test.....started engine and ran for 1 min....appears to be no pressure when rad cover taken off.

4. Right now the rad fluid is very bright green and about 2 inches above the core.....however, the rad appears to have stopped puking fluid onto the front axle....for now!

6. Rad temp as per gauge goes to about 130-140 after 20 min drive with 2 aboard...is this a normal range?

7. As per #6.....the temp gauge get slightly fogged up in the center after about 3-5min.....is this normal?

8. Changed both diff fluids with 80W90 Motomaster GL4-5.....rear diff fluid was so discoloured (malted milk) that it may have ingested H2O at one time or another. I will change rear fluid in another 1-2 weeks.

Rob....please respond to #6 if time permits.....not sure what temp should be
when run for 20 min.

Still looking for trans oil.....I hear that Redline makes a 75W-90 that does not affect "yellow metals"

Regards for now,

les