Carriers and 2" mortars

[RichardT10829]

Folks.


I am just gathering information regarding the use of 2" mortars from Can / Brit carriers, does anyone have any information regarding what ordnance were carried (yes I know it will be 2" mortar) but were there specific amounts of different projectiles, or was it a case of grab what you need pertinent to your impending engagement.

secondly what were the projectiles stored in, and where were they stored ?

I know the tube was stored on a purpose made mount on the gunners left protection plate (Mk2*)

any help would be appreciated. (I have misplaced my carrier books since the extension was built)

Cheers

Richie

[rob love]

There was also a modification for the mk1 carrier where they mounted it on the engine cover instead of the firing rest that is normally in that location. I believe the source for the modification was in one of the CAMT pamphlet. It did not list the munition load, nor where to stow it.

[Jordan Baker]

I believe this is the modification Rob is talking about.

[rob love]

That's the one Jordan. Is that from CAMT, or one of the post war pubs?

[Jordan Baker]

CATM Issue 59, Feb 1946

[Petr Brezina]

Interesting modification of late style base plate infantry mortar. Never seen that. Was it ever operationally used?

[lssah2025]

Overhead view of the bomb/smoke projector rounds carrier, mounts under the gunners glacis plate.

I can't remember if it is 6 or 8.

[RichardT10829]

So I am guessing the projectile went into a tube, and the tube into the container under the glacis.

Lance is the basket to the left of the gunner also for 2" mortars or is that for 3" projectiles ?

I have just finished my first repro 2" smoke, still need to stencil it though

[B. Harris]

Some pics of interest...
Harris

[B. Harris]

One more of similar

[RichardT10829]

Excellent thanks guys. Is there a tube carrier for the projectiles ?

And do I need to make a basket like Lance's

[lssah2025]

Richard, mine does not have the bomb thrower on it, I do have the adapter plate and all the bits minus the cut-down Enfield, the basket I have actually holds the cardboard/Canadian bren boxes and some personal kit, I don't know if it was original to the vehicle or the previous owner added it. I think my bomb thrower will fit on the side armour plate without an issue. Also attached are pics from the previous owner with a modified 2 inch mortar on the wall. He put some rounds in the box for it, but again, don't know if it was 100% correct. You could put in the cardboard 2 inch mortar round carrier I think though, I will have to check the next time I am back in the states.

[charlie fitton]

I ran across a ref. to an early war, improvised mount made from wood at one time..mounted on the engine cover..

[Michael R.]

You may find four different mounts and brackets for the 2" mortar series found on MK-I/MK-I*, MK-II/MK-II*, T16 and Windsor carriers. The 2" mortar does not appear to have been mounted on the Canadian production tank hunter or factory produced 3" mortar carriers, each using the MK-I* hull. The 2" mortar brackets were designed to fit different mortar base plates. For example, the MK-8 and MK-8* 2" mortar base for airborne and infantry being dissimilar to the MK-2* and MK-7 2" mortar base.

The MK-I* Universal Carrier vehicle series introduced a Canadian produced mount fitted to the top plate of the engine cover. That also required reworking the firing rest into a collapsible position. The CAMT as posted by Jordan, as well as the Canadian Army Modification Bulletin L-1 of 15 Nov 43 refer in varying details. The factory produced mount for the MK-I* is CTL-739-SA, the modified firing rest assembly is CTL-1562-A.

The MK-II/MK-II* and converted MK-I/MK-I* series Universal carriers had two different style factory produced brackets attached to the gunner front left upper protection plate. The late 1944/early 1945 MK-II* bracket was also factory mounted using a composite belting material sandwiched between the armour and an additional plate on the exterior of the hull, beneath the clearance lamp. Similar factory brackets are observed in both models of the Windsor carrier as well as the first model T16.

Pics to follow...

[B. Harris]

Michael R.....

The detail is amazing. Excellent recovered details!
Cheers,
Harris

[Michael R.]

The upgraded MK-I/MK-I* fitted a British produced bracket fixed to the vehicle. The factory produced MK-II* (Canadian) carrier first model bracket is similar to the British made bracket. On the left, an early 1944 bracket at the Ford factory. (disregard the fact this is a welded hull Canadian production carrier) On the right, a British made bracket fitted with the later style mounting base on a British carrier.

The Mark 7 2" mortar, along with Viola Davis during war time assembly of the mortar at the elevator company.

The early vehicle bracket did not have a supporting plate on the front of the gunner left upper protection plate. Later production shows the plate in place, with the composite material between the hull and plate. The last series of three images show an original paint February, 1944 MK-II* without the plate, a factory image of an August, 1944 MK-II* with the plate, and Andrew D.'s (iirc) October, 1944 MK-II* with the plate.

[Michael R.]

An image of a British carrier fitted with the 2" mortar on the engine cover.
A drawing from the Canadian Army Modification Bulletin of the 2" mortar mounting assembly, part number CTL-739-SA with the modified firing rest CTL-1562-A.

Looking at minute 08:07:18, the modification installed on this MK-I* showing the firing rest being lowered:
https://youtu.be/01mNiOJhaX8
Compliments Richie post #24.

[Petr Brezina]

Excellent info!

[RichardT10829]

Great stuff Michael R, a thorough bit of research

Many thanks

[stephen crowhurst]

Here are a few pictures of an original mounting on a T16.

[stephen crowhurst]

And a few more of the original and a couple of a replica with a 2" mortar fitted if it is any help to any one.

[stephen crowhurst]

Sorry big fingers and no brains. Would help if I uploaded the pictures.
Stephen

[Petr Brezina]

Thanks for nice pics, Stephen!

[RichardT10829]

Well, I now know that 12 projectiles were carried

Very very interesting video here

https://youtu.be/01mNiOJhaX8

Canadian Mk1 carrier by the looks of it too.

[Lynn Eades]

Good find Richard.
Thats my head sticking up from the gunners seat in HMH 243 in one the next You Tube clips, titled "1939 (WWII) Bren Gun Carrier, first in N.Z." (Bruce Cameron's Bren)

[Robert Bergeron]

Santa Claus delivered this to my door recently. It is Xmas in July . Now begins the process of mating this bracket to my 1944 hull . The preceding posts are very useful, thanks Michael R and the other Carrier men . Cheers.

[Michael R.]

tell us it was raining ... unless you were so happy you wet your pants?

[Robert Bergeron]

Michael R . : Would there be a date of manufacture or part number i could look for under the layers of paint ?

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Michael R . : Would there be a date of manufacture or part number i could look for under the layers of paint ?

. . . email sent.

[Robert Bergeron]

Here is my newly instaled 1 st variation ( early ) bracket for mounting the 2 inch mortar in the Canadian MKII Carrier .